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Transfering files at the end of a shoot

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larsnip

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This may be a stupid question, I'm somewhat of a newbie, we usually deal with film Cameras, We have a 435 and a 535.the digital workflow is still somewhat of a Mystery to me.
We have a shoot last night with a Red, at the end of the shoot the Red Drive on the Camera is 98% full. The Client wants to take the footage and leave. We can't download a magazine and give the film, it takes time to transfer the files to a Hard Drive for them to take, They do not want to wait :wacko:
Whats the solution next time?
Can you record directly on to a Drive they can take with them if you think your near the end of the shoot?
Can you record Concurrently on to a red drive and another Hard Drive.


DAve
 
The best advice is to back up as you go, during the shoot. This means alternating between two drives/CF cards etc.

Good idea anyway as you don't really want to shoot all day without backing anything up.

This way, by the end of the day there are only a few clips that need backing up, probably only take 5 minutes. Easy to do while you are packing the equipment.
 
Not to beat a dead horse here but letting the drive get 98 percent full without backing up anything is quite a dangerous practice. I would highly recommend backing up often times throughout the day between lighting setups, lunch etc. This allows you multiple assurances to be able to look at your footage immediately (assuming there's time) and enables you to back up your days hard work safely to at least two external HDD's. Just good practice and your clients can leave with one of the external drives at the end of the day if they insist on it.
 
CrewPix.com said:
If you are used to shooting film, then aren't your clients used to waiting 6-12 hours for the lab to process the film and transfer it?!?

Tell them that downloading to drives is the neg processing step.
Click to expand...

The Problem is that this is a secondary market, their is no Film lab here. They shoot here, take their film and fly to LA or New York and and process it there. So that logic won't work.
I'm not saying this is a weakness with the Red, I'm just looking for a solution if this problem occurs again.
 
mikeburton said:
Not to beat a dead horse here but letting the drive get 98 percent full without backing up anything is quite a dangerous practice. I would highly recommend backing up often times throughout the day between lighting setups, lunch etc. This allows you multiple assurances to be able to look at your footage immediately (assuming there's time) and enables you to back up your days hard work safely to at least two external HDD's. Just good practice and your clients can leave with one of the external drives at the end of the day if they insist on it.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I was not on the shoot. I do understand this should be the First AC's responsibility? or the DIT's?
 
they should have a data manager on set, downloading drives throughout the day. them taking a RED Drive that is 98% full, and driving (or worse, flying) away with it is a recipe for trouble.

backup on the day. verify. try not to fill the RED Drives past half full.

get a data manager on the shoot day.
 
larsnip said:
The Problem is that this is a secondary market, their is no Film lab here. They shoot here, take their film and fly to LA or New York and and process it there. So that logic won't work.
I'm not saying this is a weakness with the Red, I'm just looking for a solution if this problem occurs again.
Click to expand...

Even better! Then they are used to waiting days before seeing it! :w00t:

Again, the solution is incredibly simple. Have a laptop on set and switch drives through the day to back up. Then at the end of the day, you will only need about 5 minutes to get the remaining clips.

Problem solved.
 
Always create backups as you go. I think enough people have said that.

The client can leave at the end of a shoot, or shortly after, with a copy. Even a RED Drive if they so prefer, either have them buy the drive or pay a refundable media deposit that they get back when the drive is returned.

Don't ever let the only copy of your RED footage go out the door on a hard drive. Just asking for trouble.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Don't ever let the only copy of your RED footage go out the door on a hard drive. Just asking for trouble.
Click to expand...

Exactly! One of the greatest advantages of the new digital world is that there can be backups of your original footage. Make backups. Always.

Even if the client won't pay for a backup drive, make one anyway. When that one in 100 screwup happens and some junior editor wipes the wrong drive, you will be a hero (and you can probably charge a nice fee for the privilege.)
 
Backup issues

Backup issues

I see Directors and DPs make decisions on set with the Red that cause nothing but pain later.

Although I protest, folks tend to treat the Red like a video camera and roll almost constantly, thus file transfers that normally would be fairly quick take 3 times as long because most of the data you are transferring is them chatting, or adjusting the actors shirt collar. etc. They don't treat it like film and they need to, it has an impact all the way down the line.

Clients will (again, in spite of my instructions) show up with either an old hard drive they had laying around the office, or whatever was on sale at Best Buy. Had a client for a fairly important commercial spot this week show up with USB 1.0 drives. I told them that the file transfers using USB was going to be slow and we might be there for hours. This usually makes them quite happy as we shot up till the last second and they have a flight to catch. I usualy just wind up selling them my E-Sata drives.
 
larsnip said:
This may be a stupid question, I'm somewhat of a newbie, we usually deal with film Cameras, We have a 435 and a 535.the digital workflow is still somewhat of a Mystery to me.
We have a shoot last night with a Red, at the end of the shoot the Red Drive on the Camera is 98% full. The Client wants to take the footage and leave. We can't download a magazine and give the film, it takes time to transfer the files to a Hard Drive for them to take, They do not want to wait :wacko:
Whats the solution next time?
Can you record directly on to a Drive they can take with them if you think your near the end of the shoot?
Can you record Concurrently on to a red drive and another Hard Drive.


DAve
Click to expand...

Never try this again. Very dangerous practice of not backing of with 98% of drive full. Red Drive are just laptop drives connected together as RAID 0. Use DAM on set and take backup using checksum for each file transferred using softwares like R3D Data Manager etc. for every 10 minutes of footage and you need to have minimum of two drives to do this and its a must.

Digital Film Making is not yet fool proof and by our ignorance we cant complain about the medium which is in his nascent stage. So help yourself to help your effort, time of the shoot by taking backups to other drives regularly and I do with every 10 minutes of footage. If you've some corrupt files, you can reshoot and also ensure your DAM check at least medium / high QT proxy files to note down the corrupt files.
 
Red Cameras need a Loader just like any film camera, you can't shoot without a loader. If you think of this practice it will actually give the Producer a drive that is the Third Back up.

There is nothing like giving an ignorant producer a Red Drive that he constantly drops or sticks it in his gym bag while he flys to New York.

I've worked a Loader Position on many Red gigs, I've only lost one Frame. (knock on wood). I always reload a camera after setups or once the drive is 10-15% full. Its just good practice, If you drop that drive on your way to the laptop you only lose a setup instead of an entire day.
 
All good suggestions, but I have to say he could still have been in hot water if at the end of the shoot they came to give him the red drive with the footage that had been shot in the last batch of the day. If doing R3D Data Manager, this would potentially take a decent amount of time to copy footage, especially if you are working with 2 separate backup drives or 3 as I often do. So if the client wraps and wants to get on a plane right away, they have to understand that you still need to do your job and get the footage copied properly. Unfortunately, this could mean extra time either on set or somewhere else for you to do copying.

But the point is, copy as much as possible throughout the day, leaving as little as possible at the end. With CF cards, this is a bit easier to deal with as you'll be swapping out more often. But with Red drives, it's not unusual to have one with a decent amount of footage at the end of the day, despite trying to keep them swapped out throughout the day. Which brings up another point, you have to have 2 Red Drives on set, at least on high end jobs. While one is copying, another is put into action. Also, in case anything goes wrong with one, you have to have a backup.
 
We ALWAYS find a "rhythm" on that particular set that works for reloads (turn around, new talent in front of the greenscreen, camera moves to the Fisher arm, etc.)
Do them OFTEN!
I find that my reloads usually happen with the drive only 10%-12% full. Of course the drives can hold more, but why risk it? I go with 3 drives per camera. One is always offloading, one is on the camera, and one is standing by.
Client brings 2 hard drives. eSATA for speed, and r3d manager can go to both client drives at once. I make a courtesy backup on my own drive if there is time. Check the proxies. Listen to the sound if it's a sync-sound job. Open a few takes in RedAlert! if there is a critical focus situation that needs checking. A MAJOR advantage of digital cinematography is the ability to confirm AS YOU GO, on the day, that the footage is good. NEVER put a whole day's footage on one Red Drive.
If you are paying attention and working with the AD, you can often sneak in one last reload as the martini is up. At wrap you will likely have just a few minutes of back up. Sometimes you'll also want to take the sound department's files and put them on client drive as well. Always amusing when the entire day's sound fits on one 4 gig CF card and takes 2 minutes to transfer! :)
That's the way I rock it.
Harry
 
You've been given the wrist slap for filling your drive to 98%. I won't add to that noise.

This is my approach.

I shoot on the 8 - 8GB cards I have for the first part of the day. This way I am able to get some feedback from the data manager that all is well. Everything from smooth playback and timecode and sound lining up to light sources not flickering...everything you would have expected to hear the day after a film shoot.

Then we go to the drive. Fill it to about 10 percent max., then go back to cards, so that you finish your day with only minutes to wait.

I always bring my own drive to set and take my own back up home. This has saved production hassles more than once.

I once got a call from a producer who said "There is no sound on shots x and y". I freaked out a bit, went to the files I had saved and happily watched and listened to the takes in question.

The people that did our transcoding (who also said there was no sound) were busted.
 
I'm really paranoid about back up. It's crucial. I always copy the data on 3 different hard disks (2 of the production and 1 mine) during the shootings. If you change hard disk when the crew change shot (moving tripod, change lenses, different scene) you don't disturb them and you have your files. It's your negative. Don't making the back up often it's like leaving a roll of exposed film on a plastic bag somewhere on set.
 
>Although I protest, folks tend to treat the Red like a video camera and roll almost constantly, thus file transfers that normally would be fairly quick take 3 times as long because most of the data you are transferring is them chatting, or adjusting the actors shirt collar. etc. They don't treat it like film and they need to, it has an impact all the way down the line.<

YES, Sir Pancake!
One of my pet peeves. On those days where the directors keeps it rolling, easily 50% of the footage ends up being that useless fluff.
Then everyone is surprised and incensed when production has to keep on buying stage OT or the location fee OT at $1,000 per hour while the DAM transfers the "footage"...

Dylan,
I'm on the 10% tip too. Usually that fits within the rythm of the setup break reload. I see the percentage at 92%, 88%, 84% or something similar by my method... I've never once in almost a year of shooting seen 70% or lower.
It's just asking for trouble...
Cheers,
Harry
 
When using an esata enclosure for the client hardrive,how can he access to the files on his computer? Esata bracket;ext esata controller card?Which brand?
 
Rosewill E-sata works really well for MAcintosh, its about $45. There are many others, just be sure the compatibility says Mac OS X, thats all I did. I found Rosewill, It works fine so why change.
 
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