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Graphics Card Advice

Sam Roberts

Sam Roberts

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Hi. Just finalizing the list for my new MAC Pro FCP system. What graphics card will give me top performance, especially when I use RED CINE? My reseller recommends the Nvidia Geforce 8800 GT 512MB. Can I do better without spending a lot more money?
 
Are you going to use Color? In that case go for an ATI card. We are quite happy with the X1900.
 
My preference is (2) ribbon-attached ATI Radeon 3870 HD cards.

http://www.macworld.com/article/133935/2008/06/radeon.html

Ribbon to attach two together comes in box. I'm not 100% positive that Mac OS 10.5 will support dual attached cards.

Since these are not available from Apple, just pick cheapest card and then order two of these for around $200 ea. from Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/ATI-100-43592...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1223330966&sr=8-1

Just make sure you put both in 16-bit PCI slots. The Mac Pro (Early 2008) computers implement PCI-E revision 2.0 which support twice the data rate per lane as the PCI Express revision 1. Slots 1 and 2 are both x16 revision 2.0 slots. In my Mac Pro, I can run two cards striped because only one channel can be set to 16 bit.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2838

-shooter
 
Color doesn't even start with 2 active cards.
 
I guess most cards today will allow you to hook up two monitors and stretch the desktop across both?
 
Virtually every Mac Pro compatible graphics card has two DVI outputs; you can connect two displays up to 30" each.

If you plan on using Core Image based applications (anything in Final Cut Studio, Aperture, etc.) frequently, you'll be best off an ATI card. Apple's ATI drivers are far more mature than their NVIDIA drivers. Either stick with the stock 2600 XT or go with the aftermarket 3870 if you wish.
 
The ATi 3870 beats the shit out of the Nvidia 8800GT, Most 8800's are around 700-750 mhz, The ATi's are around 800mhz
 
Cinema 4D is very fast with the ATI 3870.
 
The ATI X1900XT has been nothing but trouble to many Apple customers. Search the Mac forums and you'll see why. Kernel panics galore. Mine happened mostly right on boot. And many times, right in the middle of anything, out of the blue. I was one of those who had to pull the X1900XT and replace it with the Nvidia 8800GT. Apple calls it an "upgrade." Since replacing the ATI X1900XT with the nVidia, everything works just fine. As it should have been all along. Damn you again, Apple!

My 2¢ worth...
 
The ATI 2600 is garbage. I think it will only drive one 30" display at a time too, but I don't recall for sure. Either way, you don't want it.

The 8800GT is a good card, solid performer all around and is performing better with Core Image after the latest OSX 10.5.5 update. I haven't done extensive tests, but it seems to perform better than the ATI in Modo for some tasks, but the ATI seems to take the lead when with texture manipulation and possibly a few other functions. Have not been able to compare the two cards with Maya. The 10.5.5 update also brought some updates to the ATI driver set.

The 3870 is an overall more powerful card than the 8800GT and even with the latest updates, the 8800GT does fall a bit short on performance. I wouldn't go as far to say that the 3870 beats the shit out of the nVidia 8800GT as x86box has. But it is definitely a better option right now for OSX. I don't recall what the core clock is on the Mac version of the card, but it is crippled, not 800MHz. OTOH, the Apple variant of the 8800GT is locked at 600MHz and needs an EFI hack to overclock.

If you're buying a new Mac, it's no big deal to order with the 2600 and swap for a 3870.

Hopefully we'll see new Mac Pro systems around MacWorld and much needed revised graphics options. The 3870 is relatively new the the Mac world, but it's an old dog in PC land right now.
 
I got two different graphic card offers for a mac pro system:

1. ATI 2600 XT
2. nVidia 8800 GT

any thoughts about these two cards? (i want to use them with two full HD displays and a kona3 card)

kind regards,
martin
 
btw, is it necessary to get an 3.2 GHz 8-core Mac Pro for finalising 4k REDCODE RAW to 2k or could i get along with a 2.8 GHz 8-core with enough RAM?

regards,
martin
 
Between the ATI 2600 and the 8800GT, you will want the 8800GT. There is also the ATI 3870 card, but it is available as an aftermarket purchase from AMD/ATI and the few select vendors who carry their Mac offerings. Just don't get the ATI 2600.

It is not necessary to get the 3.2GHz, but I would seriously recommend the 3.0GHz as a compromise if you can budget it. Every bit of speed will help, but at the same time, the speed gains do not coincide with prices in a linear fashion.

As for RAM, the amount to consider is in relation to which applications you will have running and how many of each of those that allow multiple instances. Most software is 32bit, which means it exists in a 4GB address space with the ability to access anywhere from 2GB to about 3.5GB maximum. All of RED's software tools are currently 32bit apps... So if even if you have 4GB or more free to load Redcine or Red Alert, that's all you're going to get (2~3.5GB).

For an 8-core Mac Pro, I recommend 8GB RAM as a solid amount to work with. 4GB is workable, but you will run into issues when trying to run multiple apps, especially if you're trying to run apps like Redrushes in the background. So I say get 8GB for sure. More is always better, but 16GB is really about the top end. Beyond that, you have to start buying much more expensive RAM modules (4GB modules) and there's not a whole lot you can do with that much RAM anyway until more applications make the 64bit transition.

One of the biggest bottlenecks I see with peoples' systems in terms of working with RED footage and the rendering of video files in general, is drive speed. You will want a nice RAID to work off of.

DO NOT BUY THE APPLE RAID CARD!

Take a look at the CalDigit RAID card. It is far superior, very impressive and less expensive.

Don't buy hard drives and especially do not buy your RAM from Apple unless you like to throw away lots of money.

You will have to do some price research as to where to buy RAM, HDDs, etc.. I don't know what to recommend for that, as you're in Germany.
 
I echo Jeff's recommendations, specially those about NOT buying the Apple RAID card, memory and drives from Apple.

There are many better options out there.
 
Goes little bit off from the topic of graphic card combo, but I heard the Korean manufacturer TVLogic is coming out with LCD production monitor with 10-bit panel and dual-link HDSDI input.

By the way, Jeff's recommendation 3870 is working great with my Sony 10-bit panel LCD TV. Also, 3870 lets you display at larger area than 1900 (30" panel worth, sorry forgot the pixel numbers) with 24" LCD display (won't be 1:1 of course) so that will make the REDCINE parameters shrink to see the picture easier, eliminating the needs to switch the modes (down side is buttons and texts become too small).
 
Also, another Jeff's recommendation, the CalDigit RAID card lets you expand external chassis (up to 3), so you can create up to 16 drive RAID. Jeff, do you know if this card is PCIe2.0 compatible? I'm thinking someone has to come out with x16 lane 4 channel RAID card.
 
any thoughts about the PROAVIO editBOX 8MS Array? I read it somewhere on the forum ... could i combine the caldigit raid card with the PROAVIO?

regards,
martin
 
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