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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

New 5600K light source

Yes we have looked at using these in fixtures. I saw this technology some months ago and contacted them and have looked in detail at it. They're still kind of in an early stage about understanding the uses for something like this in "entertainment" as they call it. So, there's a couple of issues with it at the moment but we hope they'll work them out.

1). The unit comes completely sealed in its own box thats fairly large (about 7" x 7" x 4" high or so). Has the heat sink and a fan and its loud enough to be annoying. Small reflector also built in there. And this is their "entertainment" model which would be meant for stage / studio fixtures so I sense some more education has to be done there for them to understand about fans and sound recording.

2). Since the unit is so large and in an unusual shape (rather than your normal bulb) you can forget about a traditional fixture like a fresnel or a par. You have to design something else for it. Some other kind of fixture that is suited to this form factor. And there's no way to put another reflector around it in its current form so its hard to make a fixture that focuses from narrow to wide beam for those that want that. The reflector that is built in might be fine and then again it might not be.
 
but what kind of technology is it? It`s solid state technology with a life like that of LEDs but they distinguish it from those. And most important: how much light does it output? It sounds more than interesting but those guys keep it too vague...
 
Well it is a bit vague. I think they do that because they're paranoid about copying but that's going to happen anyway eventually if it becomes popular.

I've seen conflicting information in the specs that doesn't always add up. Lumens per watt seems wrong in some quotes I've seen based on actual wattage draw. The technology is a plasma burning inside of a bulb which is excited by a microwave (or some such) source, so its not LED for sure. Here's what it says in the FAQ on their site:

While LIFI™ is a category of solid-state lighting, it is not an LED. The fundamental difference is that LEDs use the solid-state device itself for light generation whereas LIFI™ light sources use a solid-state device to generate RF (radio frequency) energy to power a plasma light source. LIFI™ is able to combine the reliability of the solid-state technology with the high brightness and full spectrum of HID (high-intensity discharge) sources. This is the reason LIFI™ is called a solid-state high intensity light source.

The LIFI™ technology shares many of the same benefits with the LED technology but also has some basic differences in performance. The similarities that it shares with LEDs are the reliability of the solid-state electronics, the directionality of the light output, and the ability to dim instantaneously. The differences in performance are that LIFI™ has an order of magnitude higher lumen density (amount of light from one device), a full color spectrum with >95 CRI (color-rendering index), and better source efficacy.


Because it is so much like an LED though, we've had the toughest time figure out what would be a good fixture for this. At least LEDs (even 1w to 5w) are small and can be mounted on a heat sink to make a big source of a bunch of small point light sources. You get multiple shadows with such a fixture so its not a one to one replacement for tungsten or HMI. Someday when we have a big enough LED that can be used with an efficient reflector then we've got a shot at really replacing an HMI. Until then, when you use LED arrays you've got to be okay with the bunch of small point sources all kind of forming a large broad source with a great throw.

You could do the same thing with this LIFI obviously but the sources wouldn't be so close together since their packaging is so large. Then you've got to live with the fan in the current generation. It would be an odd fixture no matter how you go. Something other than your traditional fresnel or par.
 
Richard, thanks for the extensive information! The technology is much more different than I´ve initially thought...

BTW, what about your planned LED-lights I`ve read about some time ago? I`m interested in it.

Regards
 
Things are moving a bit slower than normal for us this year as the Olympics brought thing to a halt in many areas of China, particularly the north where we do some primary work. Quite a few kinds of factories could only run 1 or 2 days a week, power rationing, etc. So that's my excuse for the moment, "the Olympics ate my homework", so to speak. Anyway, things are slowly getting back to normal now and we hope we can catch up once the National Holiday which is going on right now and shuts the whole country down every year at this time also is over--next week. Let's get back to work!

I haven't announced pricing yet because I'm waiting on some final pieces of the puzzle. For instance, some more parts of the battery accessories are still being chosen. Some parts of the fixture itself too haven't been totally priced out.

I think you'll be pleased though with the final results and pricing though. Redusers and DVXUsers in particular will have some good discounts. Just a bit more patience.
 
Great to hear that the project is still "alive", thanks for the update :-) Quite too many fixtures on the market are madly overpriced, only the 1X1 by Litepanel and Rosco`s Litepads seem to be "reasonable" (in the widest sense) so I`m looking forward for your equipment!

BTW Richard - you may have a look into this thread, we`re speaking about you, too: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19422
 
Hi Richard,

Have you seen, by any chance, the led light kit that City Thatrical came out with (iW™ Blast TR Lighting Kit). I'm going to look at it next month, but I'm worried about the total lumen output. It seems really friendly as quick and easy location shoot equipment, but I think I need more punch...

...maybe this will do the trick?: http://www.thomann.de/nl/american_dj_eled_fresnel_500_cw.htm. I think its build with a ledstar that also comes in a 100 watt version, which would be even better, but I believe it doesn't have a propper heatsink yet.

Anyway you seemed like a guy who's on top of the new development, given your location ;-).

Can you suggest other good led fixtures.

And about lifi, since you had a good look at it, can you tell me anything about the color curve? I heard its rather unusual. You think it will output descent daylight?
 
Hi daansteijnen,

For the moment, IMHO LED lighting is best done like a "digital" light where you have a matrix of relatively weak LEDs that altogether producing a strong output sort of like the pixels on a CRT (each independently not being interesting until they're altogether in the form of a CRT).

The drawback to this of course is you don't have the one strong point light source so you can't get just one shadow very well. This is a big concern to photographic / film / television people in that when they want a single shadow for whatever reason (mostly dramatic) they can't get it with an LED matrix (or for that matter any large source). The single point light source is the best for that. Projecting a cucaloris on the wall for example is the classic example where a single point light source is superior to the matrix type fixture. The LED matrices do work fine though for a lot of regular key/fill type applications and we're seeing a lot of people that like those type lights for their portability, ease of setup and versatility in how they can be powered. The more you can back the light away from what its shining on, the more you reduce this "pixelated" shadow effect as well.

For those that want a single point light source, enter the large power LEDs...

The LED unit you pointed to is an LED fresnel using a high power single LED (at least that's what is indicated from the product description). We've seen those LEDs in up to 300w, but its really not practical (yet) for film and television lighting. The unit you showed us has a fan so is more in the "theatrical class". The issue is when you're using one of those type big single LEDs you have two choices for heat management: 1). A huge and heavy heat sink or 2). a fan (or both). Of course, in film and television use, we don't like fans because of the noise so we would opt for a large and heavy heat sink. In a street light which these are mostly designed for, this isn't a problem. In film and television lighting where people are wanting lighter and more portable, it is an issue. The big heat sink this would make for a very heavy and ungainly fresnel.

I know because I looked at making one of those type instruments back in 2007. We were thinking about a design where the back of the fresnel was fixed to a yoke and was your heat sink and the front of the fresnel moved back and forth on the heat sink to give you your wide/narrow focusing of the beam. There were a lot of problems to solve there and the price would have been super high due to the LED and the more complicated fixture and heat sink. I just didn't think people would be interested at this point in a super expensive lower wattage output fresnel that's too heavy to carry around.

The lifi unit is mostly only interesting for the "theatrical lighting" type units at this point and certainly a street lighting class as well because of the fan. I think they're far more interested in hitting these areas than the relatively smaller market covered by film/photographic lighting. People can live with fans in these market segments.

As far as the spectrum goes, its perhaps a bit better than LEDs at this point which are farther from a full spectrum simulation than the more mature fluorescent or metal halide areas. This is certainly closer to giving you the single intense point light source that would be more interesting than what we could do with a single LED at this point.
 
Hi,

Thanks for the extensive feedback. A fan in the fixture would suck indeed. Any chance they lifi will be getting a 'fanless life' any time soon?
 
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