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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Just facts?

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Listen to this most informative # 017 September 30 2008 episode over at Fxguides-Redcenter-Podcast.

http://www.fxguide.com/redcentre

Mr. Mike See-More along with his posse of illustrious Aussie-Cohorts brilliantly adress all of these issues with someone ( ? ) who has strikingly similar arguments and even formulations as that Spam-Rant.

HHHMMM?

I wonder who ( ? ) would have the time and energy to write so much prose and then make sure it got out there?...Simple Clue: Follow the money trail.

Not only is it disinformation it is deliberate sabotage to be taken with a grain of salt.

But what the hey...Thanks for sharing "Shadowest" a most interesting 2nd post indeed.

Dog-Day
 
Maybe I can buy 6 or 7 reds and then I could sell all of them to buy a genesis...
clever, I will think about it.
:shifty:
 
experiment said:
Maybe I can buy 6 or 7 reds and then I could sell all of them to buy a genesis...
clever, I will think about it.
:shifty:
Click to expand...

Hi,

Genesis is a rental only option, so any camera you buy would be stolen.

Stephen
 
Reading all that "facts" about RED camera written at http://www.rcjohnso.com/REDFACTS.html

I found out that Rian Johnson looks the same as a guy who was at the filmmakers's gang

avatar just before (he or...) the filmmakers's gang changed it and took my photo instead of that or his :w00t:.

rian_johnson2.jpg

Rian Johnson.


I don't say that Rian Johnson is hiding here at the forum as a filmmakers's gang but that's

what I discovered about the famous avatar's "joke" in my "detective's investigation" :detective2: .

The Internet server experts could find it very fast.

Also could be that is all my faulty imagination and please correct me if I'm wrong :).
 
BTW, about the RED resolution, color depths, etc...RED facts I would like to ask Rian Johnson (a.k.a. filmmak...)

to show us here at the forum the pictures from F23 and Genesis to compare it with the RED pictures below.

Those pictures are fast and dirty shots from my balcony at this very grey and rainy day in Vienna (Friday, October 3, 2008).

shake4Kto1K.jpg

Shot on RED using Leica Summilux-M 90 mm F2 lens on IMS for RED @f/5.6, processed in RA, ASA 500,
Color Space: Camera RGB, OUTput LUT/Gamma: REDlog, then processed in Shake using Filmlight's plug in
Truelight as it's showed at the picture 4 below.

2Kdetail_to1K.jpg

Shot on RED using Leica Summilux-M 90 mm F2 lens on IMS for RED @f/5.6, processed in RA, ASA 500,
Color Space: Camera RGB, OUTput LUT/Gamma: REDlog, then processed in Shake using Filmlight's plug in
Truelight as it's showed at the picture 4 below.

shake4Kdetail_to1K.jpg

Shot on RED using Leica Summilux-M 90 mm F2 lens on IMS for RED @f/5.6, processed in RA, ASA 500,
Color Space: Camera RGB, OUTput LUT/Gamma: REDlog, then processed in Shake using Filmlight's plug in
Truelight as it's showed at the picture 4 below.

truelight_01.jpg

Filmlight's Truelight settings in Shake 4.1.
 
Film to Film is not the same as Film to DPX to Film...

Film to Film is not the same as Film to DPX to Film...

shadowest said:
It seems interesting
http://www.rcjohnso.com/REDFACTS.html
Click to expand...

His talking about "Film's" look going through a DPX file reminds me of the conversion of Standard 8mm to Super8mm, the projectors that showed both had a smaller aperture than 8mm projectors for Standard 8mm to make the switch to Super8mm look bigger than it was.

A DPX file cannot hold all the information from a film negative, it is just a compromise Kodak made in cineon when storage was expensive.

One can see "pixels" as jaggies on edges when HD or 2K are used for a filmout, like on titles and moving edges. So his implying that 2K is as good as Film to Film optical printing is silly. The fact that you cannot see how much better the film stocks made are today because they go through a DI, and that the DI is like a Digital Cinema camera image, is just saying that a digital image made OF a negative at 2K is not much different from a Digital image made direct from the subject at 2K. On can see more detail and tones in an optical 70mm print from a 35mm negative than in a 35mm print, that is why 70mm blow-up prints were made.

The main advantage of the RED ONE (tm) being 4K is that the OLPF can reduce jaggies and chroma moire and keep 2K RGB resolution in the output, whereas cameras that start at 1920x1080 will require a OLPF to reduce their 80% MTF resoultion to maybe less than 1K to control the aliasing and chroma moire.

Here is something to think about, how can a digital scan off film look better than taking a digital image off the subject with the same pixel count sensor?

The film reduces the contrast range of the subject, but blurs the image and adds dust and muck. The blur might help because it acts like a OLPF?

Anyway, using a RED ONE (tm) is not about the image quality alone, it is about ease of use, cost of use, speed, and other factors, and with your film in the theatre would the audience see or care about any difference between the RED ONE (tm) and other options in a film print made on the same filmrecorder, or would the ticket sales be any different. I think in the right hands using the RED ONE (tm) would not reduce ticket sales, so if that is the case, why not use it over the more expensive options?
 
I don't know how one can reply to that article... but, i hope the one who wrote it can read this...

first of all I don't know why he is saying the same things once and twice and even thrice... repeating the same talk too much... that's a weak point..

secondly, he is trying to turn the truth around the other way but he couldn't .. when he talked about raw.. he forgot to say if you had a trouble baking in on set you "CAN'T" undo .. while with raw workflow you can while this is the realy advantage of that workflow baking on set is easier..
Thirdly, you'll have more creative control over the image... etc..
he didn't mention the sensor size of "SUPER35MM" ... and the resulting lens usage variations and DOP... etc...
after all his talk about compression he didn't mention that these compression results in easier workflow in the end.. while not losing all that much data.. compression algorithms are not mesaured by how much data it saves .. also he didn't mention that compressed raw is different thing to get higher quality image while saving tons of data..better to compress one channel than doing three of them... will result much less data for higher quality image...
he was defending resolution of F23 and others by saying 1.9 K is enough.. but he didn't defend that 10-bits are also enough...

that guy bothered me reading his article.. i should haven't done that actually..
 
www.DANCAD3D.com said:
The main advantage of the RED ONE (tm) being 4K is that the OLPF can reduce jaggies and chroma moire and keep 2K RGB resolution in the output, whereas cameras that start at 1920x1080 will require a OLPF to reduce their 80% MTF resoultion to maybe less than 1K to control the aliasing and chroma moire.
Click to expand...

It is a frequent mixing up of the HD number (1920x1080) that originated in the TV world, and the retrospective justification of this number vis-a-vis 4K/2K, in a newer area, digital cinema. When people standardized 1920x1080 they were not really thinking about OLPF, theater projection, 4K, 80%, and what not, in the realm of a digital cinema camera.

Two of the several important reasons for this number were:

(1) it should provide twice the resolution of the studio generated 720 pixel width (both NTSC and PAL have 720 pixels on a line) after adjustment for aspect ratios:

720 * 2 * (16/9) / (4/3) = 1920

(2) It should not mix up with two important "distress frequencies":

(a) 121.5 MHz— International voice aeronautical emergency, and,
(b) 243.0 MHz— Joint/combined military voice aeronautical emergency and international survival craft.

The oscillator used in many of such TV systems has a frequency of 74.25 MHz:

74.25 = 33 * 2.25

where, 2.25 MHz, is the least common factor between horizontal scanning timings of NTSC and PAL numbers.

I.e., the harmonics of this frequency should not interfere with 121.5 Mhz and 243.0 Mhz.

www.DANCAD3D.com said:
Here is something to think about, how can a digital scan off film look better than taking a digital image off the subject with the same pixel count sensor?
Click to expand...

(a) Log-type encoding results in more dynamic range crammed in the same bit depth.
(b) SNR in terms of quantization of log-type non-linearity is superior than quantization of a linear signal over a vast range.
 
I talked smack about RED and all I got was this lousy Panavision T-Shirt...


New user busts on here and posts the link to old, and overly discussed news. We're done. Already other threads on this topic, look in the OT forum, which is where this thread is going.
 
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