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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

High Speed Red 1000 Fps

Does Phantom goes 4k? and 1000 frames? i dont believe it. we shot 500 frame footage adn 1000 FPS footage with weinberger G2 camera system (how do u spell those things :) and trust me 1000 FPS was useless after a while cz its like dead slow and point is to get the right moment and the moment never occurs most of the time in our case we were shooting pouring milk shots. so dumped 1000 frame to 500 and we got what we wanted and it did fit in the edit time slot of the shot.

1000 is an over kill. Expecting RED to do 1000 is not viable i think. its just like have a 535b or arricam and for slow motion stuff u get arri 435 adn for ultra slow u got for photosonics or Fries in old days i guess (good old days) so RED is purely a Sync sound camera which can go up to 500 or 600 FPS in Epic's case.

But with phantom the chip is double the size isnt it? decreasing the DOF to dead shallow which is like madness.

azadfilm company/ analog -Pakistan
RED# 2198- 4380-4382

jami
 
The Phantom HD is 2048x2048. It has a slightly larger than 35mm format sensor. Shooting at 1080 height (it's always 2048 width but you could crop), the top speed is 1054fps. The camera has 14-bit color depth and records uncompressed RAW. It captures to an internal RAM buffer or goes directly to the solid state CineMag, which at the above resolution can record up to 450fps continuously.

The Phantom 65 is 4096x2440. The photosites are the same size as on the Phantom HD so the chip is about twice the size (hence the name Phantom 65). Top speed at full resolution is 145fps. Cropped to 2.40 it pushes just past 200fps. Top speed recording to CineMag at full res. is just under 100fps.
 
thats sweet :)
 
I would be surprised if epic doesn't surpass the Phantom cameras in every way, pretty exciting.
Aloha
-A
 
jtm said:
way to go Drew599! I'm stoked too.

Now doesn't that feel good?!
Click to expand...

It did feel good to type that. I'm not expecting Epic to be the end all be all of cameras. I'm only expecting that what I would use it for it would fill that need. The Phantom is a cool camera and if I needed something at 1000fps I would just rent it. I mean how much does someone need to use a 1000fps. Would be fun to take out to the desert next time I go shooting.

jtm said:
ps; like the grocery-clerk-POV avatar Drew.
Click to expand...

That isn't the grocery-clerk POV...its what you see when you turn on the lights.
 
DR and full frame FPS over more rez fo sho. Just stating my priorities and I know I'm far from the first.

What is really promising is the post production solutions to render new frames to create higher frame rates without the task of exposing high frame rates when doing it on set. The post solutions are not perfect yet but are promising. Often I find DP's have to sacrifice lighting just to get exposure for higher frame rates. You find yourself tearing off that full grid frame for some opal. ;)
 
I have seen the Phantom footage projected at 2K and I have to say I am thoroughly impressed with that camera. To me, it's a rental item unless you are doing tons of high speed. Red serves a different purpose. 5K at 100fps is actually really great news and about all I would expect out of a camer whose main purpose is to shoot normal speed most of the time and high speed occasionally. Of course, I'll take whatever they can come up with. But for right now, Phantom seems to do what it does very well and fills that niche market until something else comes along that does it better and cheaper.
 
Poi Boy said:
I would be surprised if epic doesn't surpass the Phantom cameras in every way, pretty exciting.
Aloha
-A
Click to expand...

Even though the optimistic guesses are in the region of 500fps and the RED One was supposed to reach over 50fps at 4K, but but barely goes over 25fps?
 
Jannard said:
Let me say this again... the clock speed of the sensor at full resolution is what it is. You cannot scale down and get faster frame rates. You can crop and get faster frame rates... but not scale. Physics...

Jim
Click to expand...

That damn physics!:waaa:

You are going about it backwards Jim, time to just invent a new physics - scaling AND high speed; faster than speed of light travel; Shipstones; - it's all there........:biggrin:
 
Guys i think you need to keep in mind the sensor upgrade coming. the epic will be run off this sensor to begin with. so if jim says it will do 100fps then odds are we will probably be able to get 400fps or better at 2k. have faith in these guys I know i do.
 
Hi guys,

I think what Jim is telling us through the flowers is that the new EPIC camera and its sensor might reveal a better (custom???) mode to access the higher frame rates.

Some math:

5K sensor will be 4:3 full aperture, so roughly 5K * 3.75K (Jim, correct me if I am wrong here). So its a sensor that handles 100 frames per second, each with 18,750,000 pixels. So its 1,875,000,000 pixels per second, at 12 bits (or more?).

It also tells us that it will handle roughly 3750 lines * 100 fps = 375,000 lines per second (at least). So far about the theories.

Now, as its almost a standart feature with CMOS sensors, you can have a region of interest (ROI) window out of the sensor to be read more often. Given you aim at a 1920x1080y window, the math is roughly as follows:

Limiting factor linespeed (depends on design, mostly the A/D conversion path):

375,000 / 1080 = 347,..., so roughly 350 fps.
Each line can be just 1920, but maybe even full 5K at the same speed.

Limiting factor pixel speed (will probably NOT work):

1,875,000,000 / (1920*1080) = 904,..., so roughly 900 fps.


The key to get the most FPS out of a sensor is to have enough pixel frequency. There are sensors of 8K * 8K that do a 10,000 FPS. Its just you can't handle this amount of data, nor encode RED CODE or JPEG 2000 at that speed.

But I would LOVE to see a high speed RED too.

So far we have to stay with Phantoms and the new WeissCam.

Cheers,
Axel
 
Axel Mertes said:
Hi guys,

I think what Jim is telling us through the flowers is that the new EPIC camera and its sensor might reveal a better (custom???) mode to access the higher frame rates.

Some math:

5K sensor will be 4:3 full aperture, so roughly 5K * 3.75K (Jim, correct me if I am wrong here). So its a sensor that handles 100 frames per second, each with 18,750,000 pixels. So its 1,875,000,000 pixels per second, at 12 bits (or more?).

It also tells us that it will handle roughly 3750 lines * 100 fps = 375,000 lines per second (at least). So far about the theories.

Now, as its almost a standart feature with CMOS sensors, you can have a region of interest (ROI) window out of the sensor to be read more often. Given you aim at a 1920x1080y window, the math is roughly as follows:

Limiting factor linespeed (depends on design, mostly the A/D conversion path):

375,000 / 1080 = 347,..., so roughly 350 fps.
Each line can be just 1920, but maybe even full 5K at the same speed.

Limiting factor pixel speed (will probably NOT work):

1,875,000,000 / (1920*1080) = 904,..., so roughly 900 fps.


The key to get the most FPS out of a sensor is to have enough pixel frequency. There are sensors of 8K * 8K that do a 10,000 FPS. Its just you can't handle this amount of data, nor encode RED CODE or JPEG 2000 at that speed.

But I would LOVE to see a high speed RED too.

So far we have to stay with Phantoms and the new WeissCam.

Cheers,
Axel
Click to expand...

I'll have to correct you... you have made assumptions that have never been given out or spoken. Guessing doesn't make it fact.

Jim
 
I watched a doc on TV the other night about CERN. I understand the camera at CERN accelerator/collider takes some astronomical number of pics, (I thought I heard something like, 100,000 fps, maybe more) so they can understand the big bang sub atomic particle behavior. I just remember thinking this thing wipes everything out completely. They also mentioned the technological spin offs that come about from basic research. I wonder who makes that puppy?
 
10s said:
I watched a doc on TV the other night about CERN. I understand the camera at CERN accelerator/collider takes some astronomical number of pics, (I thought I heard something like, 100,000 fps, maybe more)
Click to expand...

It was more... add another zero. Doesn't matter though. The instant they create a black hole we are all doomed. :nuke:
 
You were likely watching "60 Minutes." The "camera" at CERN is a 60 megapixel imager that can capture 40,000fps.

Now once you pick your jaw up off the floor, understand that this is really an array of camera sensors shoved together next to one another, and they are monochrome for increased sensitivity.

Anyone wanna guess who made it?
 
Mitch Gross said:
You were likely watching "60 Minutes." The "camera" at CERN is a 60 megapixel imager that can capture 40,000fps.

Now once you pick your jaw up off the floor, understand that this is really an array of camera sensors shoved together next to one another, and they are monochrome for increased sensitivity.

Anyone wanna guess who made it?
Click to expand...

Mitch, you may be correct, but if so the BBC got it wrong. They said:

And the two huge experiments watching the results of collisions between the protons are effectively giant 100 megapixel digital cameras, taking 40 million shots a second. Many of the technologies hadn't even been invented when the scientists started building the LHC. Adam Hart-Davis discovers what it takes to build the world's most intricate discovery machine.
 
Sorry, I inadvertently left off three zeros! 40,000,000fps is correct.

The supercolider is essentially a pair of huge cameras watching these giant electromagnets blasting particle pairs in opposing directions at one another. Simple in concept but absolutely insanely stunning in the scale of achievement.
 
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