Speedgrade DI vs. Scratch Color Grading

[Edgar Pitts]

We are in market for a high-end software based color correction system, and it looks Speedgrade and Scratch are coming up tops. The grading system will connect to a SAN and other stations running Adobe CS3/4 applications.

I am looking for real-world examples of the pros and cons of the system. For this comparison, I am only comparing the modules included in Scratch Color Grading with Speedgrade DI since they are comparable in price.

How does the entire feature set of each product stack up?
Are there things that Speedgrade can do that Scratch can’t?
Which other Scratch modules must be purchased to have the same functionality?
What are some things that Scratch can do that Speedgrade can’t?
What are the advantages of Scratch’s data-centric workflow?
How important are the other Scratch modules?
Which has better real-time playback at the highest resolution and quality?

Any additional insight would be great.

Thanks.

Edgar Pitts
Producer
Jetrefilm Entertainment
http://www.jetrefilm.com

 

[Matthew Greene]

Both are quality products, all I could offer is opinions. My suggestion is contact the companies and get some hands on demos to decide.

 

[John Tissavary]

I don't use Speedgrade, so I can't speak to it's functions & features in comparison w. Scratch. But I will say this: I have used a number of really high end DI systems - Baselight, Nucoda Filmmaster, Spirit 2k & 4k, and Scratch, and aside from turnkey hardware and extended featuresets not directly related to conforming and grading, there's not a lot of difference in what one can do in one package vs. another. I've post in other threads that grading tools are pretty much the same from package to package, though some interfaces make working with some tools more powerful than others.

I can say this: at this point in time, Scratch is the only DI tool that can access Redcode RAW files directly and natively. Period.

Speedgrade has to rely on the SDK to process the raw files, and right now that means that it'll be a little slower. Over time I'm sure the SDK and other avenues of Redcode debayering will improve, but today that is how it is.

Scratch, running on octo-core Skulltrail-based systems, is the only system on the market that can de-bayer 4k scaled to 2k in 1/2 res (de-bayering half the 4k data for 2k output). This is for non-MAX mode (B16, B17).

IRIDAS (developer of speedgrade) has excellent RAW support for other cameras, and no doubt will rock when Red allows GPU debayering of redcode either via an upgraded SDK or through direct access to Redcode raw data, but for now they are in the same boat as every other DI developer besides Assimilate.


regards,

John T.

 

[Edgar Pitts]

Both are quality products, all I could offer is opinions. My suggestion is contact the companies and get some hands on demos to decide.

I am very interested in demoing both products. Being in Texas can be a little limiting sometimes (but there are many advantages too) - so it looks like a trip to Cali is in the cards.

I don't use Speedgrade, so I can't speak to it's functions & features in comparison w. Scratch. But I will say this: I have used a number of really high end DI systems - Baselight, Nucoda Filmmaster, Spirit 2k & 4k, and Scratch, and aside from turnkey hardware and extended featuresets not directly related to conforming and grading, there's not a lot of difference in what one can do in one package vs. another.

Hi John. Thanks for posting your comments. This is what my research has lead me to as well. That is why we are looking for a software solution that we can upgrade the hardware as it gets better.

I can say this: at this point in time, Scratch is the only DI tool that can access Redcode RAW files directly and natively. Period.

Speedgrade has to rely on the SDK to process the raw files, and right now that means that it'll be a little slower. Over time I'm sure the SDK and other avenues of Redcode debayering will improve, but today that is how it is.

I do not want to purchase Scratch just because it is the only tool that can read RAW now. I would want to buy it because it fits in my long-term workflow needs.

Edgar

 

[John Tissavary]

I understand your point, Edgar, re. not basing a purchase on purely short-term gains. It's a lot of money to spend on any package, and you definitely want to spend it wisely. In the end the only way to make this decision is to demo both packages.

I've used lots of different DI apps, Scratch is what I committed to and use almost daily - the R3D native rednode with currently unparalleled playback performance, excellent conforming and grading tools are what I need since I do work a lot with our own, and others' Red footage.

If you do come to SoCal, let me know, perhaps we can get together and I can be of some assistance in your decision.

cheers,

JT

 

[Dustin Cross]

At NAB IRIDAS was showing Speedgrade working with native Redcode Raw footage. I haven't kept up with what they have now, but they had Redcode working way before the SDK.

I would get demos of both products and see which you prefer.


Mahalo,
Dusty

 

[Edgar Pitts]

Thanks John. I just might take you up on that offer.

I am curious if you have the full Scratch setup with all of the modules? If so, how would you value the components other than Color Grading modules?

Edgar

 

[John Tissavary]

Dustin:

The agreement that developers have with Red is to use the SDK, even if they are capable of reverse engineering (access to) the codec. Only a few companies that had previous arrangements (way back when no one else believed in Red) are able to access the raw data directly, including Assimilate.


Edgar:

I have the complete set of Scratch modules running on a system I built myself. Since my primary use of Scratch is conforming and grading I obviously needed the edit & color modules, scaffolds (necessary for secondary correction), and chose to go for all the extensions: LUT export, playout, dual head, and media (quicktime).


cheers,

John T.

 

[Hans von Sonntag]

I'm using SpeedGrade over a year now.

There are two versions DI and XR. DI can read all formats including picture sequences, XR can not read picture sequences (tiff, DPC, etc..). Both packages can read most RAW formats, QT and AVI and write to QT, AVI and all container-less formats such as DPX, EXR, Tiff etc....

Because XR cannot read DPX, Tiff etc... its aimed not to the 35mm scans DI market (where SpeedGrade DI finds it's core application) but to the new crop of RAW cameras and all other video formats.

SpeedGrade XR is 15k EUR, SpeedGrade DI is more expensive. I'm not familiar with USD prices, so best thing is to contact Patrick at Iridas directly.

There are many pros and cons to each of the both apps.

While Scratch has very robust conforming tools is SpeedGrade stronger when it comes to grading (more layers, the ability to grade crossed, etc...).

Both packages can conform an EDL and grade a project on a high sophisticated level.

Scratch is Windows only, while SpeedGrade is both Windows and Mac. On the Mac there is no possibility to use a HDSDI out.

I guess that SpeedGrade XR is less costly than Scratch when all tools are enabled, but here I'm purely guessing, best is to get a quote.

Finally, yes, currently SpeedGrade has to debayer through the Red SDK, but I've seen how fast Dalsa, Phantom and other RAW stuff is debayered in RT and found the quality stunning. Red promised to open their code on the RAW level to developers, so I'm certain in the very near future SpeedGrade will read R3D natively.

I'm using mainly Red now but the Phantom HD will be included in my workflow as well. It's always great to be compatible to all the contenders.

The interfaces are very different, so is the product philosophy. It's up to ones personal taste and needs. Both vendors supply an evaluating licence. Please note that you need a fast Nvidia card such as 4500fx or 5600fx for RT playback (might work on the 8800 as well).

Hans

 

[John Tissavary]

Vielen Dank for the excellent overview of Speedgrade, Hans.

Just to clear up one thing: Scratch has unlimited layers (they're called Scaffolds in Assimilate lingo).

Things may have changes re. Speedgrade's toolset, but the one thing that turned me off of Speedgrade when I demo'd it quite some time back was the lack of color & luminance control curves, which is the single most used tool for me in any grading or compositing app.


Regards,

John T.

 

[Terry Wester]

Edgar,

What are you talking about limitations in Texas. I own a post house here in Dallas, and we have a full blown Scratch suite. Give me a PM if you are interested in coming by to check it out.

I am very interested in demoing both products. Being in Texas can be a little limiting sometimes (but there are many advantages too) - so it looks like a trip to Cali is in the cards.