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RED's battle against Sony -- Jim response succeeding the new Sony's Armada* move

E

Emanuel A.

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Posted today @dvxuser.com:

«Yeah, I've been reading the thread over at Red. Jannard likes to talk about how they are putting pressure on the big boys, and in many ways I think they are, but it has been the big boys that have rearranged Red's game plan over the last couple of weeks no matter how he spins it.

I'm not sure if Red has the R&D resources to even start to compete with Canon's sensor technology. When Canon finally wakes up, decides to get off their butts and move, they can do some incredible things instead of slowly releasing incremental improvements to make a buck. I'd like to thank Red for their presence in the market. I think they finally woke up Canon.

The problem is: Canon is now awake.

People over there seem to be concerned that Scarlett will now be even more expensive. I will go on record that Scarlett will now have to come in at cheaper price point than projected and have more features than the 5D if they hope to have significant market penetration. That is what will put Canon on the run and gut their camcorder line.

Scarlett:

2,499.00-2,999.00
fully manual
variable frame rates
XLR audio inputs 24 bit, 44.1, 48 and 96K, phantom power, line level/mic level
Eos and Nikon mounts
Full Size Sensor/Just as low light sensitive as Canon

This is where Scarlett needs to be if they hope to get a jump on Nikon and Canon. But I don't think they will be able to pull the sensor off. We'll see. I'll buy it if they do.

For some reason, Jannard reminds me of John DeLorean. Remember the DeLorean DMC-12?» ~ f64manray (dvxuser.com forums member)

I'd like to listen this community on the subject matter.


* (about the Sony's Armada quote...) Canon, Nikon...
 
RED is good for the industry. Any time someone comes in and doesn't play "by the rules," it usually kicks the competition in the arse and shakes things up. I think RED played all this just right, as they didn't just play "catch up" as a new company (which many companies would do...a startup that can MATCH the products of Sony, Canon and Panny? Sounds pretty good.), but instead flew right by them with innovation.

So...even if you're a Canon or Sony or Panny fan, RED is good and you are going to get better products at better prices because of them.

My $.02.

Kevin
 
I saw the Nikon D90 and now the Canon EOS Mark II. Very interesting products.
However I'm very confident with RED and I just feel that Jim and Red team will amaze us soon.
Truth is I don't even imagine Jim not responding with something BIG.
RED seems to be a very flexible company really listening to their customers needs.
For me there is no doubt RED will win this battle.
 
I think Red just wants to do what they want to do regardless of competition. They are only influenced by the people if any.:spidy:
 
There's just no comparing to a camera that shoots Full HD but in a mpeg compression as Canon does. Scarlett will be RAW, 3K and will also be able to exceed the Canon in versatility for a "FILM" camera. The list can go on so why bother.

The ones who should be afraid of Canon's 5D MarkII is Sony with their EX.
 
John DeLorean was set up by Detroit and the FBI into a drug scandal that ruined him. This was after the Big Three did everything to keep him from getting an engine strong enough to pull his stainless steel car down the road. Too bad, it was beautiful and he had a real vision, I think. But in the days when he left GM I guess they didn't have the same stock options they do today, he wasn't as well funded as he should have been to complete his quest.
I think by Mr. Jannard having his own tools to evade the big company tactics of economic strangulation, supply embargo and trade strong-arming, he's already outwitted them. There isn't much they can do with somebody who doesn't need their money.
Although I will say after lugging my new RED around for two weeks, those other companies sure know how to make things smaller! But that doesn't work on me either, I still want a DeLorean- even if the engine is 130hp, I love steel.
 
I've been saying for a while now that Canon is the company that has all the tools to really jump into this digital cinema field and clean house. For whatever reasons, they have not wanted to. That might change, or it might not. Canon's current lineup of HD cameras is a disgrace. They are not even close to seriously being in the game. Arri and Dalsa are miles ahead of them.

The 5DM2's video option is awesome, but it's very far from being a digital cinema camera, if for no other reason than its form factor, lack of viewfinder, etc. No one knows if this is just Canon trying to keep Nikon at bay, or if they are serious about digital cinema.

Comparing the 5Dm2 to Scarlet doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I always thought of Scarlet as being something extreme-sports shooters would really love, with its small form factor and super high framerates.

All this talk about how Jim is flailing around is probably nonsense, since none of these people have any idea what JJ has up his sleeve. I for one have stopped trying to guess... because it's useless when things are changing this quickly. Jim has the luxury of running an extremely nimble company that can turn on a dime. That's a good thing.
 
Dude, I couldn't agree with you more. Canon could be a very serious competitor to RED. Not that I'm encouraging competition, per se. But competition is good at the root level. I could easily see a digital cinema world monopolized by RED and Canon.

Canon's got everything they need. A foundry with a head start on chip design. A badass lens manufacturing facility. They already understand ergonomics like no other. They just need to do it.

Sony made their move. F23 and F35. Panasonic said no thanks to the cinema industry. Panavision has stepped up. Who knows if Thompson will ever release a Viper2.

This is Canon's moment. They better show up with something special at NAB or they can kiss their HD markets goodbye forever.
 
Without Redcode all you have is a camera with a great sensor and too much data to stuff through the keyhole. Redcode Raw and its clever variations make not only Red, Epic and Scarlet possible, but the enormous killer delivery of Red Ray.

Its what gives Jim the big "two" in his one two punch!
 
Until Red Ray delivers...we probably shouldn't brag about what it delivers. :-)

I refuse to be a fan of something that doesn't exist yet in the market. Looking forward to it...but that's it. Looking forward...
 
You can't call RED's competitors "awake" until they list this feature:

Wavelet Compressed Raw

Until you see that feature or something even more innovative. Just don't worry about it because they are asleep.

IBloom
 
When I read things like this I really have to wonder if these guys have ever actually shot or graded anything.

The power of RAW motion files is absolutely priceless.

I do agree that the 5D is far more competition to existing HD cams than RED since you're in the same paradigm of locking in 80% of your look at exposure time.

If the 5D's HDMI/HD-SDI out is a real output, the combination of the 5D and a Convergent Designs flash recorder @100Mbps long GOP could offer a combination that could instantly kill the use of 35mm adapters on HD cams for an awful lot of productions.

The ergonomics of a handheld SLR in a cinerig build should produce quite a few frankenrigs, but I bet they'll still handle better than an adapter stuck on to a HD zoom hanging off the front of HPX500.

Between RED and Cannon, I think Panny is the one really feeling the heat.
 
Not to mention Sony....

So... let's say you managed to get a 10bit 4:2:2 or better 1080p feed off the HDMI port into something like the Cineform HDMI Recorder and you mounted the whole thing on a "Frankenrig".... what could you use for viewfinding and pulling focus? I guess the Liveview could somehow be hooked to a small LCD for viewfinding?
 
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