RED SPACE vs RAW?

[Brandon Fraley]

Is there a specific reason to shoot while viewing RED SPACE (or 709 for that matter) rather than RAW? I always have, just because I thought that was the way it was done, but then I started looking at everything through RAW and it often looks better to me. It's a little desaturated and not quite as contrasty, but there's also ZERO noise. It seems like it's easier to tell what the ACTUAL exposure is also.

Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

 

[Uli Plank]

No, you are fine. As long as you know how much is in your image, there's nothing wrong with seeing it RAW.
REDSpace in particular has been made for others (like director, producer, whoever) to look at the images and say "wow", instead of complaining about washed out and desatured images.

 

[JohnLands]

I tell everyone i show the red that the only thing that matters is the F stop and the lighting. "I only talk to people that plan to finish in 4k and do a DI" You cannot change anything else to the camera while shooting, You cannot make the camera record crappy noise unless you put it there in post or you do not light properly. How you view it is up to you but it changes nothing. You can shoot the entire film with the ISO/ASA at 1000 and the footage will all be safe if the light meter the DP used to set the stop was right. I hope this helps RED = EASY- HD = HARD

 

[Chris Gearhart]

REDspace, (or whatever LUT you are using) can be a fool-proof way help you make sure you are exposing properly for post. Exposing for RAW is best, imo, if you know what you're doing, although if you know what you're doing, you can expose anyway .

So, sometimes with oddly lit scenes (with high contrast, for example) I do a quick check in camera with the approximate final grade look to be sure I am leaving enough room for the mids, or that the blacks/highs will look right when the curve is applied. This is either a lazy cheat, or a double check, depending on your frame of mind.

Just keep in mind that the histogram is responding to the look you are using. So, for e.g.,

If REDSpace shows that your highs are clipping, moving over to RAW just might show no clipping at all. This "artificial clipping" in REDSpace is helpful if you know the final grade will be in REDSpace. if you shoot RAW and the highs looks fine, but your final grade is REDSpace, your whites may be "clipping" once a curve is applied at the final grade. You certainly have room to fix it to look non-clippy, but then you might be sacrificing consistency with other shots.

The best way to see what I mean is to light a scene with a low-key, chiaroscuro effect (with, say, a nine stop difference between the lows and the highs). Switch between RAW and a look (REDSpace, for example), and watch what the histogram does. It'll be an "aha moment".

(NOTE, clipping in a look will still look better as a rolloff, imo, than if you clip in RAW and then try to roll off the highs. Mysterium + Graeme is a great combo!)

 

[jimhare]

this is where I start to get lost. I would like to expose based on RAW as I can get more light on the sensor and get the lowest noise.

So can I then process in Redcine, not applying Rec709 or REDSPACE and still get a good result? I don't want to clip highlights. What are the best Redcine settings when you expose for RAW but are ultimately mastering for HD or DVD.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I'm looking for that final piece of the puzzle.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Joel Kaye]

So can I then process in Redcine, not applying Rec709 or REDSPACE and still get a good result?

Sure. Use RedLog and dial in a curve that works for your image. It'll probably seem like a pretty dramatic curve because you're starting with a a very flat image. You may need to tweak saturation, ISO and other settings too.

REC709 and RedSpace are just a bunch of color settings precooked by the guys at RED to save some time for people who aren't very good in post as well as make the image pleasing while shooting.

 

[jimhare]

Cool! Thanks!

 

[Chris Gearhart]

REC709 and RedSpace are just a bunch of color settings precooked by the guys at RED to save some time for people who aren't very good in post as well as make the image pleasing while shooting.

lol! I say almost the same thing to folks when I give RED training.