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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

R3D to DNxHD?

C

Chris Swartz

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Michael,


When is Avid gonna get a direct transcode from r3d to avid DNxHD inside Avid with timecode?

The SDK is released, and others are showing you up (ie Cineform, Adobe)

I want to open my Avid (PC please) and import my Red Footage with Timecode into a 1080 project. I don't really care how long the transcode takes, just that it works. All this metacheater, ALE, stuff is just a Charley Foxtrot, if you get my meaning.

This has to be on the plate sometime soon? We know you guys can do it, hello P2 workflow.

I really appreciate your hard work here, and I know you are only one guy, but we need this bad.

Chris
 
Hey Chris

Adobe is having assistance from Red.

Cineform had already reverse-engineered the codec. They were just waiting for Red to give them permission.

I doubt the SDK is usable yet.

That said, Avid are working on using existing tools - eg RedRushes and RedCine - to get stuff into Avid as painlessly as possible, with full metadata.

I'd talk to MichaelP about getting on his beta list if I were you.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
I'm on the list. I'm getting the newstuff.

It still doesn't change the fact that this should be straightforward. The process right now is convoluted to say the least. Especially on the PC side. I don't own a MAC! Nothing against Apple I just don't own one. Redalert is not a option.

I thought file based workflows were supposed to make things easier?!

What do I know.

Just letting off a bit of steam here anyway. Michael has been a great resource. I'm just trying the squeaky wheel approach here.

Still doesn't change the fact that import and transcode w/ metadata should be a done deal, especially since this is what Avid does best(tracking data that is). It's not like were asking to edit the full resolution R3D file inside Avid in realtime w/ HD preview on the fly.

Chris
 
I'm still not convinced I wouldn't be happier with a multi-platform stand-alone system, so that the grunt work can be done while I'm editing. I don't want to tie up my Avid suite and dongle with heaps of transcoding if I could have some headless box in a backroom with the cheapest gruntiest processor I can find doing the job.

Ultimately I'd like to see a Linux tool that can do the job, but there's no Linux SDK yet, and DNxHD support in Linux is a grey area with an implementation in FFmpeg but no capacity to create Metadata-filled MXF media.

I'd settle for an easily managed MXF creator, perhaps derived from MetaFuze or added into it, that can take the RED files and make MXF media that I can use. Something that can run on any PC or Mac I have available without tying up a dongle or valuable edit suite.
 
Bruce Allen said:
Hey Chris

I'd talk to MichaelP about getting on his beta list if I were you.
Click to expand...

Does one just email him and ask? We just went into preproduction on our first Red project and I'm about to start doing test workflows in the next week or two, so I imagine that list is a good one to be on.
 
Lots of things going on right now... validating existing workflows, working with partners to enable more effecencies...

I need a long vacation where there is no video... ;)


Michael
 
Chris Hello,

One option that you could investigate is using one of the products that we here at Digital Vision make.

We were showing a preview of this at the recent IBC trade show in Amsterdam. You can conform from EDL using the full 16 character tapename or clipname, or you could simply batch import all of the files from the root folder. Once loaded into the system it is really easy to export any flavour of DNxHD for use in the Avid.

Regards

Nigel

Nigel Hadley
Director of Training
Digital Vision
www.digitalvision.se
 
Hi Nigel

Could you elaborate on the DV (infortunate abbreviation!) workflow/equipment/ballpark cost for R3D --> DNXHD

Presumably this is a baked in process but with the possibility EDL trace (© GVG) for conform & grade via Nucoda.

Our Red usage (imminent) mostly will not allow (time/money/ability to change up to broadcast) for a conform stage, better to do a decent best light at the R3D --> DNX stage and further tweak that during full resolution edit.

Unless Nucoda is capable of being a full editing tool that is ;-)

Cheers

Trevor


Nigel Hadley said:
Chris Hello,

One option that you could investigate is using one of the products that we here at Digital Vision make.

We were showing a preview of this at the recent IBC trade show in Amsterdam. You can conform from EDL using the full 16 character tapename or clipname, or you could simply batch import all of the files from the root folder. Once loaded into the system it is really easy to export any flavour of DNxHD for use in the Avid.

Regards

Nigel

Nigel Hadley
Director of Training
Digital Vision
www.digitalvision.se
Click to expand...
 
What Avid should have done...

What Avid should have done...

"Cineform had already reverse-engineered the codec. They were just waiting for Red to give them permission."

Nothing stopped Avid from doing the same thing. Once again they are behind the times because they are only interested in a world that revolves around DNXHD. If DNXHD were wavelet based it wouldn't be so difficult or alien. Avid only reacts.They have become the least proactive media company on the planet.
DNXHD only makes sense in a tape based world where media has to be converted to something else in order to edit. File based workflows are becoming the norm. We need to be able to edit in native file formats if we choose to.
 
Seeing as the SDK has just been released, it was difficult for anyone to really provide a real solution. Reverse engineering is not always the best solution in order to maintain the fullest quality of what might be available via a codec or format.

And Avid is not just DNxHD, it also plays native DVCPRO, MPEG of many flavors, etc. And many of those are file based.

Final Cut does not edit the R3D file natively either. So the same comment can be made to that. In both cases, Apple and Adobe, RED did the development before the SDK was released to the rest of the world.

While RED is an important format, it is not the only format that NLE's that play in all market segments need to deal with.

More streamlined solutions will come online over time.

Michael
 
Nigel Hadley said:
Chris Hello,

One option that you could investigate is using one of the products that we here at Digital Vision make.

We were showing a preview of this at the recent IBC trade show in Amsterdam. You can conform from EDL using the full 16 character tapename or clipname, or you could simply batch import all of the files from the root folder. Once loaded into the system it is really easy to export any flavour of DNxHD for use in the Avid.

Regards

Nigel

Nigel Hadley
Director of Training
Digital Vision
www.digitalvision.se
Click to expand...



Nigel,

We try to intergrate dpx exported from RedCine and Avid CMX3600 EDL in to Digital Vision and unable to link the footage.

Your thoughts please...
 
Personally I think that digital vision works better with the 16 character edl. Have conformed many a times with this in Nucoda Digital Vision with a 95% success rate, the 5% being sloppy work on set with timecodes etc...

The DPX export is better through REDline, which I use, but if you are gong to use REDCINE, create seperate folder.... and use this as the file naming

#FH.#06&.E

worked for me everytime

mahvo
 
mahvo said:
Personally I think that digital vision works better with the 16 character edl. Have conformed many a times with this in Nucoda Digital Vision with a 95% success rate, the 5% being sloppy work on set with timecodes etc...
Click to expand...

This is true of Assimilate Scratch as well.
 
The full 16 character gaurantees you the uniqueness of the file for a conform process - filename + timecode. If you looked at filename + timecode+ edgecode, it would be even more of a gaurantee that you were on the right frame.

Michael
 
If you check the header of dpx files produced by Redcine with a viewer like xnview(win,linux) or Metafuse, you will find that Reel (i.e.: A002) is put tn the Tape field and TOD as SMPTE timecode.
So an app that parses the dpx headers in order to conform, it will not work, even if it supports a non-standard 16 char. CMX EDL (like Baselight and unlike Avid DS).
 
But many applications can also use the directory in which the DPX files are stored as the source ID as an option to the long file name as seen in the EDL. So the directory name can be A001_C001_0922QD... It would be nice for the DPX generating apps to allow the user to insert the reel ID of choice into the header. Redline would have to provide that ability for applications that use that as the core.

Michael
 
I agree, but since this a file based camera, isn't better to have a master clip counter that you zero it once per job and then use this in the tape field of an EDL?
Most DSLRs have this feature, at least my Nikon has it: if I reset the counter then it will name sequentially all files, even if I change to another compact flash or even I format the card. And that counter can have 8 digits. 99.999.999 clips per job should be enough.
 
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