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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Native R3D support in FCP coming soon:

I Don't really like the L&T approach, I just like editing directly off the proxies. Is that an option? Can you conform to the r3D's in color through an edl?
 
gunleik said:
I Don't really like the L&T approach, I just like editing directly off the proxies. Is that an option? Can you conform to the r3D's in color through an edl?
Click to expand...

I agree. I hope that 'send to Color' is not dependent on having used L & T. I would like to have the flexibility to copy the media onto my work drive by any means I want (eg using R3D data manager so I have checksums) and not then have to do a second copy (with the resulting time and drive space requirements) before I can start cutting. Particularly if I want to start editing on set.
 
Good to hear Apple is still working on Pro Apps. For a minute there I'd wondered if they'd gone all "mass-consumer" on us.

:)

-shooter
 
melorama said:
Rewrapping the R3Ds in a QT wrapper is great, and makes sense, but I'm gonna just assume that in terms of editing performance, there won't be much improvement, if any, over editing with proxies in FCP.

As a colorist, I'm super-excited about the prospect of being able to simply send the offline sequence straight into Color, without having to wrangle it through Crimson & RC. But the issue of poor offline editing performance (without transcoding to ProRes) still needs to be addressed. My guess is that this doesn't address it. :(
Click to expand...

As we stand now melorama is so right on this part. This solution seems awesome, but have any of you tried to change the speed on a quicktime reference, crop a bunch of them and stack them on top of each other, add semi challenging effects to them. When I did this (numerous times) and asked final cut to render it would just disappear on me (not crash, disappear)(Mind you we have a 3.0 octicore with tons of ram and a decent video card) Straight cuts work well with the camera generated reference proxies but that is all I can get to work with these reference proxies.

Now if we could just transcode to actual quicktimes and it would re-link those, hell I would live with transcoding in L&T if I could have that funcionality. Basically FCP needs to give me the same ease of editing with the reference proxies as I get with my transcoded quicktime proxies or I won't be able to use this incredibly cool feature on 99% of the stuff we edit. Argggg so close......
 
I´m not shure but I think the advantage of going thru L&T is that you can set input and output of the clips and only transfer that part of the file. So if you have a take that is 5 minutes and only need 20 seconds of it you can set the in and out to just get that part. It also have a nice background process to Final Cut server if you have that installed. It will add the file in FCServer so you can search for it and see a QuickTime proxie with all the metadata. Also drag and drop from FinalCut server to FinalCut pro is supported. Like I said, i´m not 100% shure about the in and out setting in L&T.
 
What I am confused about, is how the files are taken into Color.

Martin says it is in prores, which is a bummer. If, on the other hand - it is like 4:4:4 RGB, then it is cool. Anyone knows?
 
gunleik said:
What I am confused about, is how the files are taken into Color.

Martin says it is in prores, which is a bummer. If, on the other hand - it is like 4:4:4 RGB, then it is cool. Anyone knows?
Click to expand...

I'm 99.9% sure that Martin is wrong. By not being able to access the RAW information in Color, then you are losing DR right there. Everything I've read about the NAB demo was that you were able to access the RAW info IN color and I don't see why they would change that (that would be a step back.)

Matthew
 
It is RAW when you go to Color. There is a tab in Color where you will be able to change the same settings as in Red Alert, debayer, exposure and the rest. So you have full access to the r3d files. Since Color is 2k you won´t be able to output in any higher rez than 2k.
 
Scott Mason said:
As we stand now melorama is so right on this part. This solution seems awesome, but have any of you tried to change the speed on a quicktime reference, crop a bunch of them and stack them on top of each other, add semi challenging effects to them. When I did this (numerous times) and asked final cut to render it would just disappear on me (not crash, disappear)(Mind you we have a 3.0 octicore with tons of ram and a decent video card) Straight cuts work well with the camera generated reference proxies but that is all I can get to work with these reference proxies.

Now if we could just transcode to actual quicktimes and it would re-link those, hell I would live with transcoding in L&T if I could have that funcionality. Basically FCP needs to give me the same ease of editing with the reference proxies as I get with my transcoded quicktime proxies or I won't be able to use this incredibly cool feature on 99% of the stuff we edit. Argggg so close......
Click to expand...


We are really close, but we're all overlooking one thing. If this indeed just generates a new proxy, why do we have to cut with that? We can keep cutting with pretranscoded prores files for full editing functionality, and last time i checked there was a color tab in this neat little program called crimson....

I don't want to put all the pressure on Ian to be our savior yet again; but he has already figured out a way to generate xml's from portions of redcode, and lucky us, color already reads xml's natively to build it's sequences as we opperate today; it may not be full R3d support within all of final cut studio, but it's a start...i'm just sayin'...
~T
 
if you can't just use the .r3d codec natively in final cut, and then take it into color and have access to the .r3d for your grading, that would be gay.

sure, output to 2K max (or beautifully to 1080p), that is fine. just don't mess with ANY transcoding time. plug 'em in and edit with them right in final cut. the .r3d's. Only way to go.
 
planetearth said:
If this speculation is correct and this is Apple's "solution" I am not impressed or amused.
Click to expand...

especially since i just watched adobe drag in native red files into Premiere, AE, & encore. Kinda puts to shame someone that has been officially partnered with red for a few years now.

My only hope is what we're talking about is a temporary solution and what they really have planned will make leaps and bounds over adobe; at the same time squashing the bad tidings brewing about the supposed dropping of the pro-apps line. Naitive red into fcp & color, only bothering to do your first render out from color to your finishing resolution...

We can dream can't we...
 
FCP is QuickTime based so for the moment, a QT wrapper is the best we can hope for. Color isn't restricted to QT which is why it will do it.

As far as I can tell, that's the deal.

Adobe certainly shows an appealing alternative, but I'm not sure it's enough to lure me away just yet...
 
Apple has been rewrapping Panasonic and Sony MXFs for a couple years now, and it's not a bad deal. I know, because I had an XDCAM (before the EX1).

If they need to re-arrange the data to make performance better and other issues easier, then so be it. I don't call that a transcode.

This is all assuming that once they wrap an R3D into Quicktime that a lot of performance issues will go away...and I'm betting they will, because there's no reason to do it otherwise.
 
skipdivils said:
if you can't just use the .r3d codec natively in final cut, and then take it into color and have access to the .r3d for your grading, that would be gay.

sure, output to 2K max (or beautifully to 1080p), that is fine. just don't mess with ANY transcoding time. plug 'em in and edit with them right in final cut. the .r3d's. Only way to go.
Click to expand...

Hey Skipdivils, is it a deep south hunting show you're working on? Or perhaps you're just shooting a movie on how to explore your ignorance in a public forum. Please, leave the homophobia in the backwoods. If you don't, you look as pathetic as a skipdivil.

Nick.
 
NateWeaver said:
Apple has been rewrapping Panasonic and Sony MXFs for a couple years now, and it's not a bad deal. I know, because I had an XDCAM (before the EX1).

If they need to re-arrange the data to make performance better and other issues easier, then so be it. I don't call that a transcode.

This is all assuming that once they wrap an R3D into Quicktime that a lot of performance issues will go away...and I'm betting they will, because there's no reason to do it otherwise.
Click to expand...


when you digitize p2 media thru L&T you're are transcoding, taking that mxf and making it it's own QT movie, independent of the original media and file structure.

I'd be fine with a L&T workflow that you could batch conform your viewing resolution (plus have audio pass thru; kinda merge red rushes and the current L&T) and then reference back to the native R3d during your color pass. That would solve all the problems of proxy editing, and give you full control (plus scopes!) during your CC pass.

Miraculously all without rewriting final cut to be independent of qt's (it would be nice, but let's be realistic here, that's a few years off)
~T
 
ThomtheEditor said:
when you digitize p2 media thru L&T you're are transcoding, taking that mxf and making it it's own QT movie, independent of the original media and file structure.
Click to expand...

But it remains in the same codec, and the process is near real-time because it's not going from one codec to another. It's more or less a complicated file copy. More importantly, it's generally a fast process.

Transcoding in every other discussion I've ever had means to convert from one codec to another. A decode, then a re-encode = transcode.
 
egh 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other b/c you are changing the properties of the extension from mxf (or r3d) to *.mov.

It's a point that could be argued either way; but in the end i think we're both saying the same thing: an independent file that acts like any other footage (in terms of data rates, full editing functionality, and RT editing complexity) obtained quickly (at or around real time) with audio pass thru; all while retaining the properties of the source footage = good things on the horizon!
 
I am far from homophobic. Take it in context. I obviously did not mean apple is homosexual. And you knew that. You are just spouting off to hear yourself. Gay has many meanings. 1. Homosexual. 2. Happy. 3. Lame.

So to your post I say relax. E erything doesn't have to be political.
 
I'm a bit confused about what it means for Color natively to edit the r3d raw files--would that include editing in the full 12 bit depth? This would be great. Otherwise, I might still want to do a one-light in RED Alert or REDCine.

Anyone know?
 
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