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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

HD SDI output to BM Multibridge Pro

phibes

phibes

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we just got our Red One and started testing...
still there are a lot of things to be investigated but there's one problem that drives me mad: I try to get a proper signal into the Blackmagic multibridge pro for external monitoring. neither HD-SDI nor HDMI is working. The SDI-signal is somehow unstable, shows up for a second, then disappears a second, comes back for half a second.... it's the preview in 720p/50Hz. When connecting it directly to a HD-CRT it looks fine (for sure we used the same cables and connectors). Additionally I couldn't get ANY 1080p output to check if this is working better... In fact the multibridge provides HDMI input I tried this instead, but also without any luck... Multibridge input remains black on HDMI.
Someone here having experience with that setup (Red+Multibridge pro)? any suggestions what to check?
And what to do to get 1080p output? Does it work? How?
I'd appreciate every hint!


Red One Build 16 V. 3.2.5
 
my guess fpr 1080 is that the RED output is P, not psf. I wouldn't be surprised if that goes for 720 as well.

But why do you want to use the multibridge for monitoring?
As to the hdmi signal, it is unfortunately unstandarized and only works with certain panels. What I have found to work, is to use a hdmi -> DVI adapter.


You can record the 1080 signal, but only to machines that accept truely <p signal. AFAIK that makes the options rather limited. You cannot record directly to SR, for example. (Again: As far as I have understood.)

Cheers
 
From my experience, even a few professional monitors don't accept such a true progressive signal. I'm quite sure that the multibridge doesn't (yet?).
 
yes I guess you're right, it's P not PsF but with 720p it shouldn't be the problem for the multibridge I think...
1080p should work in playback mode with dual link I guess but I still didn't get it working... neither via multibridge or HD-Monitor. Any related settings to configure/activate?
It's really annoying if the HDMI is unstanderdized, I heard about the problems to get it on various panels... we use an Eizo HD24441W and fortunately it works (without adapter). But Multibridge doesn't. What we need is to capture a preview signal on-the-fly while shooting. We use to do so with our HDCAM and DigiBeta's when doing MotionControl-shots to check if the layers will perfectly match each other. That's our workflow and that's why the multibridge is involved.
 
720p 50hz.

So it is safe to say you are in a PAL world.

Our Kona's do just fine with 720p 59.97hz and 1080p dual link.
Going direct to monitor vs into the bridge and an NLE or deck are two different beasts. The combo of NLE/deck settings vs the bridge vs the camera make for infinite more option conflicts.

Good luck dialing it in.
 
Frzendreams said:
720p 50hz.

So it is safe to say you are in a PAL world.

Our Kona's do just fine with 720p 59.97hz and 1080p dual link.
Going direct to monitor vs into the bridge and an NLE or deck are two different beasts. The combo of NLE/deck settings vs the bridge vs the camera make for infinite more option conflicts.

Good luck dialing it in.
Click to expand...

I a guessing you have the kona 3. I have not had any luck with our kona Lhe to 720P NTSC.
Are we doing something wrong?
 
Frzendreams, how did you enable the 1080p dual link output?
Didn't get anything then 720p so far (the playback setting is set to 1080p)...
 
Yep, what Stuart said.

Yes, we have been using Kona 3s.
It takes a second to get the AJA control panel set up right and then the capture settings set up right in say FCP. I in fact had to make a new capture setting to get it just right.

With Dual link, turn on 1080p in your R1 (red one) and then hook up both SDI outs to your I/O box in the correct order. (1 to 1 and 2 to 2)

Make sure your AJA control panel is set the correct way (checking the dual link box for instance) and again verify the FCP settings to be correct.

Like I said before, the three devices make for an unholy level of possible settings to check.
 
Many devices are fussy about the stability of the signal they have coming into them, and the Red output (even at 720p) can sometimes be slightly unstable (I suspect mini-BNCs via adaptors to long cable runs on a set doesn't help). I have found it is greatly improved by re-clocking. Many HD-SDI monitors re-clock their looped outputs, so test looping the signal through a monitor into the Multibridge. You may find it can then be captured.
 
There is a lot of confusing statements here, I don't get. When you talk about dual link from the RED to make a 1080p does that mean it creates a 4:4:4 signal? That's not what I thought. Because that's usually what you use dual link for. 1080p 4:2:2 can as far as I know run on a single cable and does NOT need to have a dual link hookup. The Multibridge Pro does NOT support dual link SDI. You have to have the Extreme, Eclipse or whatever the next level of MB is called for that. That does dual link 4:4:4. And the HDMI plug? I have a Multibridge Pro, and as far as I know the HDMI on my MB is an output!! You cannot put a signal into it. Unless there's something I missed in the manual ;O)
The MB has an internal reclock'er (like old school Time Base Correctors) so it must be something about the signal type, not the timebase or sync.

I'm about to get my camera soon :O) #2819!! So when it arrives I'll be working on the same setup, so if you can't figure a way, I will be trying shortly ;O)
 
ahhh Jesper Jesper Jesper, fancy seeing you around here;)

Im thinking of using a BM as a converter to hook up a 23" or 30" apple monitor for client/ director preview - what would speak against using a this setup?
 
On a serious note..... I can't see any probs with this. However it seems that someone is having trouble with this kind of setup. You need to make the firmware change on the MB to set it up to be a standalone converter, though. Or else you'd have to drag your Mac along every time. And that would be a little annoying ;O)
 
Jesper Kodahl said:
The Multibridge Pro does NOT support dual link SDI. You have to have the Extreme, Eclipse or whatever the next level of MB is called for that. That does dual link 4:4:4. And the HDMI plug? I have a Multibridge Pro, and as far as I know the HDMI on my MB is an output!! You cannot put a signal into it. Unless there's something I missed in the manual ;O)
The MB has an internal reclock'er (like old school Time Base Correctors) so it must be something about the signal type, not the timebase or sync.
Click to expand...

oh I forgot to mention - it's the second edition of the Multibridge Pro and it should support dual link SDI and it has both HDMI in and HDMI out connection as well (I believe you don't need a manual to identify the two connectors on the bridge ;O) )


Jesper Kodahl said:
I'm about to get my camera soon :O) #2819!! So when it arrives I'll be working on the same setup, so if you can't figure a way, I will be trying shortly
Click to expand...

hey that's great, so we can exchange our research... I will tell you what to consider when I got it working...

Today I'm going to check the duallink output on a HD-CRT, if it works I'll give it another try on the MB.
 
The HDMI outputs on the multibridge is still 1.2, thus no 10 bits. DAVIO is 1.3.

Doesn't solve your issue, but just a thing to remember...

You also cannot gang the SDI outs to get 4:4:4

I asked the Decklink demo dude what panels supported the single channel 4:4:4 sdi and his answer was:
"well, I don't know, but it's future proof"

Sounds like some other equipment I've been using lately... :)
 
Sidney said:
Im thinking of using a BM as a converter to hook up a 23" or 30" apple monitor for client/ director preview - what would speak against using a this setup?
Click to expand...

well as far as I can see the BM Multibridge Pro2 is NOT the converter to choose... what I get is: an unstable 720p signal, no HDMI input and no 1080p input (the BM Multibridge only supports 1080psf at 50Hz).
1080p is really a problem here, I tried the Sony BVM-A32 CRT which is great but also just supports 1080PsF. Really annoying...

Hopefully I can figure out what's wrong with the 720p signal to feed it to the multibridge or maybe I should have a look at the Kona3. Tell y'about...
 
Nick Shaw said:
Many devices are fussy about the stability of the signal they have coming into them, and the Red output (even at 720p) can sometimes be slightly unstable (I suspect mini-BNCs via adaptors to long cable runs on a set doesn't help). I have found it is greatly improved by re-clocking. Many HD-SDI monitors re-clock their looped outputs, so test looping the signal through a monitor into the Multibridge. You may find it can then be captured.
Click to expand...

phibes said:
well as far as I can see the BM Multibridge Pro2 is NOT the converter to choose... what I get is: an unstable 720p signal, no HDMI input and no 1080p input (the BM Multibridge only supports 1080psf at 50Hz).
1080p is really a problem here, I tried the Sony BVM-A32 CRT which is great but also just supports 1080PsF. Really annoying...

Hopefully I can figure out what's wrong with the 720p signal to feed it to the multibridge or maybe I should have a look at the Kona3. Tell y'about...
Click to expand...

I have this issue with the BM Decklink HD extreme "an unstable 720p signal"...
I'm a Video Assist operator and I'm working with the Raptor HD from Playback Technologies http://raptorddr.com/rhd.html
This DDR use the BM Decklink HD extreme. I've worked with different Red One and some give me signal stability problems. All of them use the Video Break Out Box from Element Technica.
 
I have every BM Box and Card known in my post house and had no love with any of them out of all 4 Cameras. A unstable signal at all the different rates. I needed a quick fix a few months ago, so I went and bought a Kona 3 card. It works Flawlessly!! I am yet to take a camera down to BM as they are around the corner to work out this issue.

Cheers, Chris
 
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