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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED Europe Users Meeting

Got lots of good advice and really nice to see a lot of film transfers and over/under-exposure examples. Thanks for putting this together Maarten (and others).
 
Was great to be there... Thanks again!
 
It's absolutely incredible that such a great event can be arranged by such a short guy :) Thanks from everyone at Picturewise in Denmark, Martin !!
 
lewis said:
Put me on the mailing list?! I wasn't even aware...
Click to expand...

Then you missed something, because the most beautiful footage came from the French guys; it was more beautiful than I had ever seen in a cinema; actually, to those who were there: I loved the image quality of the French movie pieces and the Nigerian shots; do you think it had to do with--besides the Red--careful postproduction or had it also to do with the fact it had been transferred to film?
 
Thank U for Organizing it. A lot of good stuff and very "cold" analize of that what RED can do and can not do.
Is good that it does not turned to Red FAN Event. It was just RED USER Evnet and was very very usefull becouse of that.
Few Things what was cover on that event , and few advises from Users.
1) Technicolor and CHe film transfering.
They have tested RED material in transfering to FILM. General advice - Use scrach, USE 10 Bit log mode as is the closest for FILM ( no R709), In scrach Mitchell filter is not very acurate , beter use Different one Sinc.
2) Tested REd latidiute- So , i would say high. Is gonna be better in EPIC as Ted have said, if it will be a upgrade option for RED one users, they did not decided yet.
3)Use 2k, is actually not noticable in film screaning if is 4k or 2k as most of the film material from 35 mm is transfered in lower resolution anyway.2k is now in 90 % only option.
4) Strobo porblem- is there , does not metter how fast u go , slow or fast , ist just there and for now no solotion for that.
5)Red can do tungsten, i have seen good proof on that on the screen- just use 80 B Filter or 88 and u will be fine.
6) Collor calibration is very importantl when u work with RAW files, esspecially for Film transfer. Use brodcast monitors and calibrate u scrach with u LAB.
7)New solution is comming for back up. It is sowtware that will be instaled on on set station and u can do backup on Raids and LTO3 by one click. Very promessing , is not done by RED , is done by independent company and is under the tests.
8) MOST IMPORTANT- RED is GREAT camera, i have seen it on the screen that in good hands it can be amaizing, u just have to know what to do with that...

This is what i had remembered, just few things, for sure much more u could get from that meeting .

Thank u again for all who has organized it , it was best 4 h of IBC.


regards
MARTIN KRYJOM
Divizion Studio Filmowe.
POLAND, Wroclaw Fabryczna 19
 
hanselblat said:
Then you missed something, because the most beautiful footage came from the French guys; it was more beautiful than I had ever seen in a cinema; actually, to those who were there: I loved the image quality of the French movie pieces and the Nigerian shots; do you think it had to do with--besides the Red--careful postproduction or had it also to do with the fact it had been transferred to film?
Click to expand...

I must have missed something myself, i wasn't aware either. BTW who made the Nigerian shorts, as this is obviously Red Europe User Meeting, the guy who made the film must be around here and i want to meet him.
 
I think the two french companies involved were Sysmic Films and Cinevator, you might contact them. I don't remember the name of the Frenchman who did the presentation on a machine that prints Red material on film in realtime
 
martin.kryjom said:
Thank U for Organizing it. A lot of good stuff and very "cold" analize of that what RED can do and can not do.
Is good that it does not turned to Red FAN Event. It was just RED USER Evnet and was very very usefull becouse of that.
Few Things what was cover on that event , and few advises from Users.
1) Technicolor and CHe film transfering.
They have tested RED material in transfering to FILM. General advice - Use scrach, USE 10 Bit log mode as is the closest for FILM ( no R709), In scrach Mitchell filter is not very acurate , beter use Different one Sinc.
2) Tested REd latidiute- So , i would say high. Is gonna be better in EPIC as Ted have said, if it will be a upgrade option for RED one users, they did not decided yet.
3)Use 2k, is actually not noticable in film screaning if is 4k or 2k as most of the film material from 35 mm is transfered in lower resolution anyway.2k is now in 90 % only option.
4) Strobo porblem- is there , does not metter how fast u go , slow or fast , ist just there and for now no solotion for that.
5)Red can do tungsten, i have seen good proof on that on the screen- just use 80 B Filter or 88 and u will be fine.
6) Collor calibration is very importantl when u work with RAW files, esspecially for Film transfer. Use brodcast monitors and calibrate u scrach with u LAB.
7)New solution is comming for back up. It is sowtware that will be instaled on on set station and u can do backup on Raids and LTO3 by one click. Very promessing , is not done by RED , is done by independent company and is under the tests.
8) MOST IMPORTANT- RED is GREAT camera, i have seen it on the screen that in good hands it can be amaizing, u just have to know what to do with that...

This is what i had remembered, just few things, for sure much more u could get from that meeting .

Thank u again for all who has organized it , it was best 4 h of IBC.


regards
MARTIN KRYJOM
Divizion Studio Filmowe.
POLAND, Wroclaw Fabryczna 19
Click to expand...

There were two things I understood differently; I understood that we couldn't check the real quality that evening because the projector was 2k; they seemed to say that starting in 4k is always better, whatever the endformat;
also, I think the strobing was influenced by speed. There was no problem with low speed, no problem with high speed, but a clear problem with something in the middle; as far as I understood Bastiaan, who did a presentation on this, had not yet found a way to work around this. Both the issue of strobing as well as the way it actually looked reminds me of what they said in the beginning of the dvx100; panasonic's advise was to handle cameras the way it is advised traditionally by the american ass. of cinematographers, and never as an interlaced video camcorder
 
In terms of strobing... It also seemed much more evident in the clips that were shown on the projector than on the actual filmtransfers.

Just for the record... I've seen HEAVY strobing on film too, so this is not really a RED issue. People working with the RED just tend to be less experienced operators than the ones shooting 35mm film. That will ofcourse change in time.
 
exactly; don't handle a red like a video camcorder, and check on the ancient advice of the american ass. of cinematographers on how to move a camera (when filming ofcourse)
 
Strobing

Strobing

What Bastiaan (sp?) did in his test was to put the Red One on a remote head, so that he would have exact control over the panning speed.

At very slow panning speed, there was no noticeable strobing, as expected.

At high speed, there was some strobing, but not in a distracting way. This was surprising, as on a film camera there would have been a fair amount of strobing.

At medium speed, there was a surprisingly high amount of strobing, making the footage unbearable to watch.

Now, the old rule of thumb for film cameras was that as long as a pan took at least 4 seconds before something would leave the frame again, you would be safe.

Bastiaans tests showed that this rule does not apply to the Red One. Referring to the trusty American Cinematographer Manual unfortunately does not help (nor does questioning Bastiaan's credidentials)

Ted answered briefly that the strobing problem was common amongst all digital cameras, just that each one had a different un-sweet spot. Also, the amount of strobing depends on a number of variables.

(I might recall some things incorrectly; somehow Amsterdam and sleep-deprivation go hand in hand...)

Bastiaan, who is one of Hollands top DPs also showed some high-contrast scenes, beautifully lit.

There was also a brief discussion on whether to light by eye, monitor, waveform or light/spotmeter. Unsurprisingly, most prefer a combination of all.

Bastiaan recommended using IR filters from ND values of 1.2 and upwards. But not at ND .9 or below.

When shooting in Tungsten light, he and Ted recommended using at least an 80C filter (and tweaking the White balance setting on the client's monitor).
 
hanselblat said:
I think the two french companies involved were Sysmic Films and Cinevator, you might contact them. I don't remember the name of the Frenchman who did the presentation on a machine that prints Red material on film in realtime
Click to expand...

Thanks to you Hanselblat, i'll try to contact the men at Sismic films.
 
Thanks Martin, you wrote it pretty close.
When I have time I will give a short explanation here about my strobe test/quest.
For people doubting my abilities, my work is here: http://www.zebrafilm.info look in the clips section.
I also know my basics, see my programs/software: http://www.zebrafilm.com

Thanks everybody for the positive feedback. Thanks to Ted for making it an interesting and constructive evening.

Bastiaan Houtkooper NSC
 
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