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Blue vertical lines with high ASA

A

Arthur Levy

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I noticed that when I set the ASA to 1,00 and 2,000, I am seeing blue vertical lines in the LCD. I checked the footage today in RedCine and when I increase the exposure, the lines are there. When I go back to an ASA of 500, the picture is clean. The lines look very similar to the blue lines I had in the picture when the hear warning indicator went on.

Has anyone else experienced the vertical lines at high ASA's? I am using 16.3.15.
 
Hey Arthur,

I've seen those lines as well. But because I doubt I'll ever shoot above 640 ASA setting and in a reel jam 800, I was not too concerned since the footage at those ASA's (I just mentioned) are void of those blue lines.

Since you have brought it up maybe someone from RED would chime in on this phenomena. Maybe black shading is all that is needed at those higher ASA's (1000 + ).

Thoughts?

Method
 
I have seen these blue vertical lines too, not only with very high ASA but also when lowering the manual white balance way low to < 2300K (forcing the blue channel), but I thought they were just in the LCD and EVF and did not pay much concern because these settings would be very rare (for me). However, it would be interesting to compare the CMOS sensor at these extremes to say a F900R with CCD sensor at similar gains.

Karl
 
framework said:
I have seen these blue vertical lines too, not only with very high ASA but also when lowering the manual white balance way low to < 2300K (forcing the blue channel)
Click to expand...

The way I understand it, lowering the color temperature is the same as increasing the iso or gain so your blue is probably ending up at 2000iso.
 
When I saw the blue lines, the camera was set to 6500. What concerns me is the few times I may need I high ASA, the lines will be in the final picture. that just will not work. Grain is OK at a high ASA, but the lines are not. Hopefully, the problem can be fixed in a future update.
 
I found that looking at the full quality high or whatever its called in redcine is the best way to judge the image because that's the final output.
 
got them everytime i boost asa, any news about fixing ?
 
Having the same problem here on high ASA and low light. We used the camera in mild climate, on build 16 and with a black calibration done. This would be a nice fix in build 17 as well.
 
I am waiting for red company to fix the grains issue ....................
i compare the red Cinema camera and sony xdcam ex1 !!!!!!
xdcam ex1 is the top !!! less grains more sensitivity....
 
how can it be that we have a half dozen complaints about blue lines but we have over 2000 cameras out there. Is this only somthing that happens to a few cameras.... warranty???
TJ
 
I've got my camera back from repair (I got a visible blue vertical line even visible at ASA320) after getting a blue line, that I couldn't remove with black shading.

However, now I find that I got darker and lighter vertical lines all over the place, when I push the ASA high enough. The lines seems to be in a pattern with 32 pixels between them, so I don't know if this is something to do with how the codec works, or how the sensor works. These lines are static, and is very visible when doing pans. I hope to test my camera against other Reds next week, and see if Im only "imagine" things, or if I still got a problem with my camera....
 
I've just tried another camera and the vertical lines are visible there aswell, so I guess this is normal behavior?!

Set the camera at ASA2000, and put the lens cap on and watch your external monitor (I've connected mine through HDMI). Anyone NOT seeing vertical lines every 32 pixel or so!?? Some are more visible than others.

Would like a response by Red regarding this topic. I've got some rental customers that called me up on while on set, yelling at me that my camera is broke, and doesn't want to pay the bill cause the photographer sees these lines on the montitor when shooting in ultra low light, and bumps up the ASA to max. Sofar I haven't been able to defend myself, but now testing another camera, I will tell them that this is normal.
 
The lines are CMO problems inherent to all CMO's (not many :-) ) I've been working with. Some are better other worst... I've worked with a Highspeed camera wich had 6 stops of lattitude and showed these lines.

You have to live with these lines if you want to shoot with more than 1600asa... or if you want grab detail in the blacks.
 
Thanks Tresch! I've got very little experience with other sensors, so I didn't know what to make of the lines.
 
Do these lines show up at different ei on different cameras?
Maybe some RED guidance here as to avoidance. WE really dont have these high speeds if it makes lines in the image?
 
Blue lines turn me RED also

Blue lines turn me RED also

I have noticed the blue lines in 500ISO and above. At the RED day, I looked over their camera and they were there also. This camera is good to a 320 - 400 ISO. I think you will not hear much from RED on this, but I don't see the point of having high ISO numbers if the footage looks like it has film scratches through out the frame. The EX1 can shoot in lower light, and the grain is a random pattern, as opposed to blue lines. This whole line thing makes it hard to shoot (ie) night city skylines, unless you have a nice t1.2 super sharp prime lens, which if you shoot with a Nikon mount you can forget about it.

The thing to remember is that the RED is a cinema style camera, high resolution, lots of light for exposure. This camera is not an ENG camera, or a camera for amateurs.
 
4Kcuts.com said:
I have noticed the blue lines in 500ISO and above. At the RED day, I looked over their camera and they were there also.
Click to expand...

From the description it seems like a problem that many sensors have -- could be horizontal and vertical lines depending upon what direction the sensor is mounted and how the data is read out. Lines become more visible at high gain and/or high exposure times. Has to do something with some internal signal calibration.

It is possible to get rid of such lines as many manufacturers have indeed done. If it is the same problem, Red should have taken care of it, as it is a known issue with sensor technology.
 
4Kcuts.com said:
I have noticed the blue lines in 500ISO and above. This camera is good to a 320 - 400 ISO.
Click to expand...

I've never seen them at so low asa rating. I've done a short with 2000 asa and you had problems when pushing your black too hard, but never saw any problem under 640 asa.

Patrick
 
Nano-25 said:
I am waiting for red company to fix the grains issue ....................
i compare the red Cinema camera and sony xdcam ex1 !!!!!!
xdcam ex1 is the top !!! less grains more sensitivity....
Click to expand...


how do you mean,you compared those two?
 
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