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What filters to buy

David Mutchler

David Mutchler

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What filters are best for Red. Redusers seem to like Panchro over Tiffen. I definitely want IR sandwich filters. Has anyone bought the Formatt filter bundle from Abel Cine Tech, it comes with nd .3, .6, .9, filters, hot mirror infrared nd 1.2 filter & 5x5 hot mirror.

I'm buying an ARRI mb II w/ 2-stage, so space is a concern if I want a polarizer (whats a good pol. to buy?) or should I shell out more $$$ for a 3rd stage?

I'll be renting the camera out, so the filters will be used for all types of shoots. What would be an ideal package to buy (within reason $$$ wise) for filters, hot mirror, & polarizer?

Thanks,
David
 
I would definitely recommend the third stage, especially if you are renting or will be shooting outdoors a lot.

Typical filter stack if you're outdoors with lots of light will be your IR mirror, pola, ND. I'm still trying to play with this sort of setup a bit, the IR mirror has to go in front, but it seems I'm getting some effect from it in relation to how the polarizer works vs. not having the mirror in front of the pola.

I know they're not quite as common, but I like the 5.65x5.65 size, and this size is a must for any filters you would rotate - polas and grads.

I haven't tried the Formatt IR ND or mirror filters, but the bundle from Abel looks good. That bundle in 5.65 square plus a pola would be a good place to start, I think. With RED, the IR can be an issue, but I'm finding that IR transmission varies with different lenses; I suppose, just as light transmission varies from lens to lens. I don't ever see any need for IR cut if I'm shooting with less than an ND9, even the 9 doesn't need it most of the time. You may find that the set of standard NDs with only having IR cut on the 1.2 will probably fit most of your needs. But the hot mirror will be useful for situations with IR-intense scenes.

You may want to also add an 80C filter (maybe an 80A) if you will be shooting with tungsten light. The filters do cause some light loss -- half to a full stop, maybe more, depending on which one. But so far I'm seeing better results with the optical filtering vs. shifting WB in post. That is, if I can afford the light loss.
 
What is the difference between the IR Cut and a Hot Mirror? Both seem to do the same thing but does the Hot Mirror cut more IR than the IR Cut? Confused...

I'm trying to weigh the combo filters (HMIRND's) versus just having a set of ND's and then a single Hot Mirror. Would the Hot Mirror filter be used instead of an 80C filter when shooting tungsten indoors?

Alex
 
Theoretically, the hot mirror blocks more IR. But as the name implies, it is a mirror and has a mirror surface that reflects everything. IR cut is just an ND filter that has some degree of IR blocking ability.

You will most likely want a set of standard ND filters and IMO, IR cut ability isn't necessary for NDs below ND9 and probably not for the ND9 either if you have a separate IR cut or hit mirror filter.

The hot mirror isn't going to serve the same purpose as an 80x filter. The mirror does little to affect color balance (if it's working properly) and will act as a ND that blocks most of the IR that can pollute your scene. In most situations you want your 80x filter to block as little light as possible, only filter out the excess red/yellow hues of the tungsten light.
 
If you can afford it - get the 3 stage.

Also get an optical flat. You don't always need filters, but it's great to have to protect your front element.

GreenscreenFX filter, 80B, Black ProMist 1/8 & 1/4 -

And of course the Tiffen digital filter plugin set....
 
There are essentially two types of IR blocking filters. One is an IR reflector, aka Hot Mirror, and the other is an IR absorber. An IR reflector uses a dichroic layer to reflect particular wavelengths of light and depending on how they are designed they can create color shift effects on wide angle lenses. These filters affect overall exposure very little (unless of course they are married to an ND layer). An IR absorber does not reflect the IR light back into the scene and generally has no issues with odd color casts. It also consumes a good bit of light, sometimes up to a full stop depending on the filter and the characteristics of the sensor being filtered (again not including any ND married to it). Almost all of the filters commonly available on the market from the major manufacturers for Redusers to stick in their matteboxes are in fact IR reflectors of various formulations.
 
Thanks to all. Mitch, if you were to put a bundle together (filters, pol, etc.) what's the list of stuff you'd buy for your red. And remember, this is for posterity so be honest, lol.
 
Well, my old filter kit for my Aaton package had about 40 filters and I always wanted many more, so maybe you're asking the wrong guy! But here are some good starters.

The Abel Formatt IR/ND bundle. Sounds a little self-serving I know, but I do feel that such a kit should be a part of every Red package.

Polarizer. The RED One does not require a circular pola (that's a type of filter, not the physical shape).

Diffusion (There are many kinds and this is really a matter of taste. Glimmer Glass is quite pretty to my eye but it depends on the look you want and this can vary from project to project.)

Enhancing, aka Dydidmium filter. This is a vapor thin sheet of metal sandwiched in filter glass that is electrically excited by certain wavelengths of light in certain lighting conditions. Most commonly this is used to photograph Fall foliage because under direct sunlight reds, oranges and other earthtones become more vibrant. A funky cyan cast will appear under fluorescents.

Soft grad NDs and blues. The NDs are great for knocking down overly bright skies that would otherwise blow out (clip). The blues are a convenient trick for enriching overcast skies to trick the eye into making overcast and sunny shots match better.

In general these are all filters whose effects cannot be fully mimicked in post. I'm a firm believer of getting it right or at least kinda close in camera. The world in front of the lens is infinitely uncompressed. The moment the light hits glass the loss of information begins. Let the filter be forst, shifting the info in the direction you desire.

Again this is just a start. I'd probably add a bunch of my favorite warming filters, such as a set of Tobacco, Antique Suede and Chocolate. And depending on the kind of shooting I'm going for, I'd want some funky colored grads, such as Sunsets, Plums and other rarely used but oh so nice tricks.

I know DPs with filter kits worth more than a RED One!
 
Thanks for the info guys. I'll be going through Evin's test one more time and then trying to come up with a plan on what manufacturer to pick up for these filters. Weighing the options... so many nuances to everything! Yikes.
 
The difference between linear and circular polarizers is the pattern of polarizing deflection / diffraction, one being linear across the filter, the other being circular. Optically, both essentially work the same and give the same results, polarization effects can vary based on the rotation of the filter. Circular polarizers are typically required for cameras with auto focus as linear polas can interfere with some auto focus systems. RED works fine with either a linear or circular pola -- circular polas are typically a bit more expensive.
 
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