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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red vs Cinealta

Are you talking about the RED ONE, Epic or Scarlet? :-)

Jim
 
Jannard said:
Are you talking about the RED ONE, Epic or Scarlet? :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

Funny. Scarlet, of course. The other two do not seem to have competitive company as yet.

I used CineAlta exclusively since early 2002 (before the BBC even knew what it was). I liked it, but... the difference between Red One and the flagship CineAlta is like chalk and cheese, really. It is not just the resolution, but the raw format, the finesse of colour, the dynamic range, tapeless workflow and other features position Red One in a class of its own.

But, you know that, Jim :clown2:
 
mcivcik said:
What do you think , which one is better and gives us best cinematography footage?

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/cinealta/shoot/F900R_zerodown3.shtml
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Define "better". If you're a schoolkid with only $300 to spend, a Canon Mini DV is going to be way better (than nothing).

Also, there are quarter-inch "Cinealta's" as well, you know. Just a hunch, but I don't think they're going to be kicking too much sand in the RED One's face :tongue:

And don't forget, there is only the RED one at the moment . At this point for picture quality a I'd say an existing 1999 Cine Alta has got to outperform a computer generated image of a Scarlet or Epic, no matter how good the render is:biggrin:
 
Plasmatic said:
Also, there are quarter-inch "Cinealta's" as well, you know.
Click to expand...

In the interest of accuracy:

All tape based Cinealta labeled products use 1/2 inch videotape. The non-tape based Cinealta products use either a variation on Blu Ray discs (XDCam HD) or flash memory cards (in the case of the XDCam EX line). There are two cameras that carry the Cinealta label that are not camcorders, but they are intended to be used with either HDCam or HDCam SR recorders (both 1/2 inch). There are no HDV units that carry the Cinealta designation.
 
mmost said:
In the interest of accuracy:

All tape based Cinealta labeled products use 1/2 inch videotape. The non-tape based Cinealta products use either a variation on Blu Ray discs (XDCam HD) or flash memory cards (in the case of the XDCam EX line). There are two cameras that carry the Cinealta label that are not camcorders, but they are intended to be used with either HDCam or HDCam SR recorders (both 1/2 inch). There are no HDV units that carry the Cinealta designation.
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I think Plasmatic meant 1/2 inch sensors... the low end PMW-EX1 carries the cinealta brand.
 
facetmedia said:
I think Plasmatic meant 1/2 inch sensors... the low end PMW-EX1 carries the cinealta brand.
Click to expand...

You're right, my bad. The F350 and the F330 are 1/2" 3-chip "CineAlta" models that came out a few years ago using Blu-Ray drives, not very successfully from what I hear. One wrong move and your irreplaceable footage becomes a drink coaster!
The CineAlta handle is appled to LCD projectors too.
 
mcivcik said:
What do you think , which one is better and gives us best cinematography footage?

http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/ext/cinealta/shoot/F900R_zerodown3.shtml
Click to expand...

F900-R is an excellent camera with 3 x 2/3" sensors. A reliable, 1920x1080 full HD, work horse.
For cinematography though, you should wait for the F35 (expected by end of 2008) or the proposed 4K camera (expected by 2010). The proposed 4K camera is not a competition for RED because of its very high price.

I suggest you get a RED.
 
Well maybe to fix this there needs to be a sticky "RED vs" thread. After all not to be mean but these threads are kind of silly and I am a bit tired of seeing them pop up.

What you say RED?
 
I have written this before. The red one is a digital cinema camera. The cinealta is a TV camera. They produce 2 different things. You can compare them, of course. But what your comparison must relay on the fact that the 2 are made for different purposes.
 
estebanred said:
I have written this before. The red one is a digital cinema camera. The cinealta is a TV camera. They produce 2 different things. You can compare them, of course. But what your comparison must relay on the fact that the 2 are made for different purposes.
Click to expand...

No, CineAlta is for Cine(ma) aplications, as name suggests, not TV equipment.

Wikipedia: "Sony's CineAlta 24P HD (high definition video) Cameras are a series of professional digital video cameras that offer many of the same features of a 35mm motion picture film camera."

Sony: "CineAlta - a name that proudly symbolizes the bond between cinematography and Digital high-definition imaging"

Yes, we are comparing apples with apples.
:biggrin:
 
Having owned both an F900 and Red, I can say the Red is far more camera with far better quality.

The F23 produces a nice image but is still a 2/3" sensor. The F35 would be the only Sony camera that compares at this point but the specs just don't match-up and the price-tag is astronomical. Additionally, the after-market parts for Sony products tend to be insultingly expensive.

I've used the F900 for feature films with success, but I'd never go back after using Red.
 
LawrenceDinkins said:
F900-R is an excellent camera with 3 x 2/3" sensors. A reliable, 1920x1080 full HD, work horse.
For cinematography though, you should wait for the F35 (expected by end of 2008) or the proposed 4K camera (expected by 2010). The proposed 4K camera is not a competition for RED because of its very high price.

I suggest you get a RED.
Click to expand...

2010 is when Monstro, Mysterium X sensor release. I wonder what Sony come up with during that time.
 
Plasmatic said:
You're right, my bad. The F350 and the F330 are 1/2" 3-chip "CineAlta" models that came out a few years ago using Blu-Ray drives, not very successfully from what I hear. One wrong move and your irreplaceable footage becomes a drink coaster!
Click to expand...

F330 and F350 are XDCAM HD camcorders, based on the Sony XDCAM Professional Disc format (not unlike Blu-Ray, but not Blu-Ray). Not much risk of making footage into a coaster.

Sony's newest XDCAM HD offering the PDW-700 HD422 camera hsa 2/3" chips and seems likely to become a workhorse in HD television production (not so much for cine-production).

As for the comparison - apples and trains.
 
We own both, hdcam and red cameras, and we like both very much.

resolution, framerate, choice of DOF are the ups of the red.
speed, ergonomics and fast worldwide service are strong ups to the hdcams.

qualitywise, both are more than good enough for cinematic release.

workflows and offer quite different advantages:
if you want to colorcorrect on the fly in the camera (as steve mc nutt for battlestar galactica), while shooting, the sony hdws win hands down. for postproduction colorcorrection the raw workflow offer more reserves.
for red one doesnt need a realtime VTR, otoh having a VTR is so useful, and you dont have to teach every single editor how to work.

we are happy to have both systems running here. red rather displaces the 35mm film than the HDCAMs here.
 
the camera doesn't make the film. go watch the 1080p version of this:

KNOWING

shot on red...
 
mcivcik said:
hmmm i understand ,bu i watch a feature film , i am impressed very much, it is very cinematogrphy, please watch this trailer http://www.nbcfilm.com/3maymun/trailer.php?mid=8 , shot with cinealta but i dont know which model exactly , but it's footage is very very perfect.. and the director of this film winner of cannes film festival,best director.
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I believe 3 Monkeys was shot with an F900R and Zeiss DigiPrimes. And you can see the sharpness and detail that amazing glass rendered!

It's always the glass, isn't it?

Also, I think they bypass'd the cameras internal deck (3:1:1 HDCAM) and used the HD-SDI out to an HDCAM-SR deck to record the camera's native 4:2:2 signal.
 
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