Emergency Problem!!!!! Help!!!! MY EVF KILLED OFF THE COLOR IN MY PROXIES!

[Brian Ferguson]

Hi all. . .
Then we turned the monitor on "black and white" for focus assisting and guess what? THE IMAGE IS NOW BLACK AND WHITE ON THE CARDS!!!!! There is no color information on the proxies at all! What is up with that!?!?!!?!

Stephen

Stephen how was the color turned off?
In the AV/Viewfinder/Color (check mark and select monochrome) menu or the AV/Color/Saturation menu?

I just ran a test the monochrome viewfinder setting does not effect the QT proxie.

Also key assignments are user settable I have walk up to a camera and know that someone had been playing in the menus because the buttons were different. I don't know how an EVF would cause this unless the user buttons had been reset.

If I go into the Saturation menu and turn the color all the way down I can get color back and make new proxies in RedAlert, that is one of the main ideas behind RED Alert is the ability to make new QT reference files in case your color balance was off etc.

 

[M_Sanderson]

dont the proxies always look washed out, basically like the raw image?
I did some tests of R3D files from Red Relay , generated proxies from RedAlert and put them into FCP where they were totally washed out, raw images which is what i expected.
Dont think you can blame the evf, get it into RedAlert and check out the R3Ds
good luck mate

 

[Andrew Walker]

Wow, that was one of the most freaked out posts I've read. This is why you do tests, tests and more tests before you shoot and then follow the same procedure when your shooting with everyone on set. Seriously, this is one of the main problems with people using the Red camera. The other one is going out on a shoot without a DIT or with one that has never been around a Red camera.

 

[Ramesh Jai]

Okay, thanks to all who answered my emergency plea. The color is there. But what a STUPID bug! The monitor is a monitor. . . period. It should NEVER affect the recorded image, but it did in this case. Thankfully, I'll apparently be able to regenerate the proxies and hand them off to my editor.

Geez. I'm 51 years old. I'm near the end of a three month shoot on this film. I've been working on the film for two years. My actor leaves in two days.

My heart can't take this kind of excitement.

:-(

Stephen

LOL! I don't really know you but I can actually imagine you raving and ranting. What a relief it must have been to see colour!!

You are right we have enough problems already. We don't need any more tension at your age. But the guys at RED are as passionate as you are. I'm sure they will sort this problem out too.

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

dont the proxies always look washed out, basically like the raw image?
I did some tests of R3D files from Red Relay , generated proxies from RedAlert and put them into FCP where they were totally washed out, raw images which is what i expected.
Dont think you can blame the evf, get it into RedAlert and check out the R3Ds
good luck mate

Most likely the r3d files and proxies generated from them were shot with previous camera builds (i.e. before the current build 16). A lot of this "washed out" look you are describing no longer exists with footage shot with the current build - unless of course the user wants it.

 

[Conrad Hunziker]

Wow, that was one of the most freaked out posts I've read. This is why you do tests, tests and more tests before you shoot and then follow the same procedure when your shooting with everyone on set. Seriously, this is one of the main problems with people using the Red camera. The other one is going out on a shoot without a DIT or with one that has never been around a Red camera.

You couldnt be more right about all of this. 90% of the issues Ive run into on the red shoot are user issues. People simply cant get their head around a certain concept, therefore it must be wrong. Or they forget simple procedure or dont understand menus. Very rarely is there an actual issue with the camera.

The best was someone who thought that the red couldnt be pointed straight down, because then the hard drives wouldnt be able to write data. C'mon! We literally had a 5 minute discussion on this - he just wouldnt be convinced.

 

[M_Sanderson]

Most likely the r3d files and proxies generated from them were shot with previous camera builds (i.e. before the current build 16). A lot of this "washed out" look you are describing no longer exists with footage shot with the current build - unless of course the user wants it.

Thats good to know, cheers.
Look forward to testing my own footage.

 

[RyanKunkleman]

The other one is going out on a shoot without a DIT or with one that has never been around a Red camera.

yeah its post like this that ease my mind and help me to realize i will always have a job (if i want it)

 

[David Wyatt]

Then we turned the monitor on "black and white" for focus assisting and guess what? THE IMAGE IS NOW BLACK AND WHITE ON THE CARDS!!!!! There is no color information on the proxies at all! What is up with that!?!?!!?!

Is there ANY way to get this color information back? Or do we have to reshoot? My actor is leaving in TWO days and this was a very important scene.

Please advise.

Stephen

Don't really get why you'd make the monitor black & white for focus - there's lots of other tools like the zoom feature, edge highlight, focus assist etc. A lot of focus pullers I've worked with on Red have their focus puller's monitors (Astro, Panasonic, Transvideo etc) constantly zoomed in in-shot so they can judge focus without affecting the picture being fed to the viewfinder or the director's monitor which is what would happen if you zoomed in using the Red's own zoom feature in-shot.

Basically I think what you should've done was set up one of your User buttons to Colour (usually User button 3), then you can choose in the viewfinder menu whether that's monochrome or false colour or edge highlight (monochrome in your case). Then you can just hit User button 3 to view the scene in monochrome (again for focus I can't see this aiding you particularly more than the other tools particularly if it's just for a quick focus check before the shot - you wouldn't want to view the whole shot in black & white just for the focus puller's sake surely!!??)

Instead it looks like you or one of your assistants just dialled the colour down to zero in the video menu which will obviously be translated into the metadata as a part of a "look" (there are many other settings here to establish an on-set look like tone & gain etc). Fortunately one of the joys of Red is stuff like this isn't baked into the RAW footage - it's all just metadata (imagine if this had happened on tape!! Lots of explaining to do!! :waaa Instead just create new proxies in Red Alert...panic over!

It's also surprising you don't have access to Red Alert on your shoot - if there's ever a situation where the proxies aren't created in-camera (e.g. sudden loss of power, card or drive being pulled without proper unmounting etc) then your shot won't have proxies and since you're using them as your actual source files you won't have any material to edit with (unless you produce new proxies from the R3D file with Red Alert).

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

Let me repeat exactly what was done.

We simply clicked buttons on the side of the EVF. We NEVER ENTERED THE RED SOFTWARE SYSTEM AT ALL! There are three buttons and a dial/button on the side of the EVF. I believe, but don't have it here to look at, that the offending button is the one closest to the operator's face.

As for Drew's insulting comment that we don't know what we're doing, well, we should probably just let that one lie, but perhaps you should 1) ask Kevin Stanley, RED's "flowmaster," about our RED workflow developments ("you've just created the new RED/FCP workflow" were his exact words), and 2) we own, and have been using extensively, on a daily basis, RED cameras since #791 arrived here in Kansas City.

It is true that we had no prior experience with the RED EVF, but we never imagined that we would kill the color in THE PROXIES by simply pushing a button on the side of the EVF. As for where that tidbit resides in the manual, I defy anyone to point it out. Have at it.

Thanks again to most of you for offering truly helpful advice and comfort.

Stephen

 

[Dylan Reeve]

So, did you manage to fix your proxies, or are you still seeking a solution for that?

 

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

I think that the most important thing to point out in this matter is the importance and the meaning of Red Raw. When you think about it, and you clearly understand it, you will come to see that the RED one is very similar to a film camera. In other words, unless you put a filter in front of the lens, no effect will be applied to your image, as all instructions for the manipulation of itself will be in a different file that you can alter later. About 8 years ago, a DP did the same thing on a Betacam, and all tapes were B&W. We had to reshoot a tv commercial which was very expensive. With the RED now on hand, there is no reason for a panic attack. Why? Because its just like film. Unless you screw big time the exposure, or put a weird star filter in front of the lens, there is a lot you can do after you shoot. Moreover, when you understand what proxy means you will see that its is NOT the recorded image, its a reference that takes into account certain aspects of the metadata in order to reproduce it. But one has to relay always to the raw file which contains the material itself that HAS TO BE INTERPRETED by an according software like Red Alert or Red Cine. Even if your workflow is based on proxies, you can even edit your whole shoot in B&W if you like! and then export the EDL's and render in full color!!! Amazing thing these guys have put in our hands... amazing things.

 

[Stuart English]

Red-evf

Red-evf

Let me repeat exactly what was done.

We simply clicked buttons on the side of the EVF. We NEVER ENTERED THE RED SOFTWARE SYSTEM AT ALL! There are three buttons and a dial/button on the side of the EVF. I believe, but don't have it here to look at, that the offending button is the one closest to the operator's face.

As for Drew's insulting comment that we don't know what we're doing, well, we should probably just let that one lie, but perhaps you should 1) ask Kevin Stanley, RED's "flowmaster," about our RED workflow developments ("you've just created the new RED/FCP workflow" were his exact words), and 2) we own, and have been using extensively, on a daily basis, RED cameras since #791 arrived here in Kansas City.

It is true that we had no prior experience with the RED EVF, but we never imagined that we would kill the color in THE PROXIES by simply pushing a button on the side of the EVF. As for where that tidbit resides in the manual, I defy anyone to point it out. Have at it.

Thanks again to most of you for offering truly helpful advice and comfort.

Stephen, can you P.M me and maybe we can have a chat about this tomorrow? I'm unable to re-create it, however we did have a bug like this a while back.

So one of the questions would be the Build that you were using etc. I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this, and if there is a bug, nail it pretty quickly.

 

[Jarred Land]

Let me repeat exactly what was done.

We simply clicked buttons on the side of the EVF. We NEVER ENTERED THE RED SOFTWARE SYSTEM AT ALL! There are three buttons and a dial/button on the side of the EVF. I believe, but don't have it here t
Stephen

thanks for the extra info Stephen... you dont need to enter the RED software at all, you can change saturation for the proxies on camera in the camera menus. Its sounding like that is not what you were doing though..

What it does sound like is the bug back in a few builds ago though.. when the focus assist mode affected the metadata incorrectly as Stuart suggests...

Stuart will help you out..

 

[Andrew Walker]

Let me repeat exactly what was done.

We simply clicked buttons on the side of the EVF. We NEVER ENTERED THE RED SOFTWARE SYSTEM AT ALL! There are three buttons and a dial/button on the side of the EVF. I believe, but don't have it here to look at, that the offending button is the one closest to the operator's face.

As for Drew's insulting comment that we don't know what we're doing, well, we should probably just let that one lie, but perhaps you should 1) ask Kevin Stanley, RED's "flowmaster," about our RED workflow developments ("you've just created the new RED/FCP workflow" were his exact words), and 2) we own, and have been using extensively, on a daily basis, RED cameras since #791 arrived here in Kansas City.

It is true that we had no prior experience with the RED EVF, but we never imagined that we would kill the color in THE PROXIES by simply pushing a button on the side of the EVF. As for where that tidbit resides in the manual, I defy anyone to point it out. Have at it.

Thanks again to most of you for offering truly helpful advice and comfort.

Stephen

I didn't mean to insult you Stephen. But if I understand what happened correctly, which is on your shoot you guys left the focus assist (Grey Scale Pink Edge) mode on for the duration. Then losing color in your proxies was a problem that was found right when that function was released. If that's not the case and you guys just used it for a second and then switched back over then yes that is a new problem. One that I haven't seen before.

But I still stand by my statement of doing extensive tests before a shoot and seeing what makes the camera freeze or the footage freak out so that those situations can be avoided.

...and that a DIT versed well in the Red camera is essential for a shoot to go smoothly.