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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Fcp Finishing Without Crimson?

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eamonic

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Hey all,
Just cut a 15 min indie short w Red and FCP Studio 2. Cut on Intel Duel core 3ghz. Not ideal but had zero problems. Opted to cut native redcine for two reasons. One I had six hours of footage and transfer to Pro-res and would have taken way too long. Two am a little wary of Pro-res quality.

About to go into Color correction and right now Apple Color is my only option.

This is what I'm hoping to achieve out of my project: A stunningly beautiful DVD, and stunningly beautiful HD-CAM master. These are the two formats required by the film-festivals that we are submitting to.

That aside let me just say I am bit disappointed with the Crimson workflow. Now I am stating that opinion as an independent filmmaker with fewer resources. But to me having to pay for crimson is a little annoying. Its kind of like renting this cool new car and then having to pay $200 extra dollars for a steering wheel. No offense to the Crimson folks. I think they really stepped up to provide a solution and did a fine job. However I feel this is a problem that should have been addressed by the Red-camera folks.

So here are some ideas that I was thinking might be a possible solution to working around crimson. Because I would prefer not to buy it. (Yes I'm cheep)

1)Simply export a single Pro-Res QT of my project. Chop it up and send to color. (But is Pro-Res a good enough codec to deliver for broadcast. It looks pretty good to me. But I can see a quality difference from just the proxies. Also FCP doesn't seem to love Pro-Res as an "optimal" format.)

2)Media manage my project w zero handles. So that all the media is duplicated based only on the media I used. Then import my files into Redcine straight out of the capture folder and color correct w RedCine. Then render and reconnect to FCP. (How great is RedCine as a color correction tool though? Compared to Color?)

Thanks,
Eamon Glennon
 
eamonic said:
Hey all,
Just cut a 15 min indie short w Red and FCP Studio 2. Cut on Intel Duel core 3ghz. Not ideal but had zero problems. Opted to cut native redcine for two reasons. One I had six hours of footage and transfer to Pro-res and would have taken way too long. Two am a little wary of Pro-res quality.

About to go into Color correction and right now Apple Color is my only option.

This is what I'm hoping to achieve out of my project: A stunningly beautiful DVD, and stunningly beautiful HD-CAM master. These are the two formats required by the film-festivals that we are submitting to.

That aside let me just say I am bit disappointed with the Crimson workflow. Now I am stating that opinion as an independent filmmaker with fewer resources. But to me having to pay for crimson is a little annoying. Its kind of like renting this cool new car and then having to pay $200 extra dollars for a steering wheel. No offense to the Crimson folks. I think they really stepped up to provide a solution and did a fine job. However I feel this is a problem that should have been addressed by the Red-camera folks.
Click to expand...

So ... if you buy a film camera, what part of the post production workflow do you get for $300 or less?

eamonic said:
So here are some ideas that I was thinking might be a possible solution to working around crimson. Because I would prefer not to buy it. (Yes I'm cheep)
Click to expand...

You have successfully established that.

eamonic said:
1)Simply export a single Pro-Res QT of my project. Chop it up and send to color. (But is Pro-Res a good enough codec to deliver for broadcast. It looks pretty good to me. But I can see a quality difference from just the proxies. Also FCP doesn't seem to love Pro-Res as an "optimal" format.)

2)Media manage my project w zero handles. So that all the media is duplicated based only on the media I used. Then import my files into Redcine straight out of the capture folder and color correct w RedCine. Then render and reconnect to FCP. (How great is RedCine as a color correction tool though? Compared to Color?)

Thanks,
Eamon Glennon
Click to expand...

What you CAN do, is manually, shot by shot, render out 1920 x 1080 DPX out of Redrushes, REDAlert, or REDCINE.

You COULD conform this in COLOR (may the force be with you!)

If you were very clever, you would notice that you can use the IN and OUT from RSX in Redrushes - one could (if one was very clever) write a simple script to CHANGE the IN and OUT values in the RSX files of the shots used in your edit from the EDL - drag all those into REDRUSHES - select IN/Out Point: RSX and let it rip - I am kinda shocked nobody has pointed this out yet. (yes, I know, what if the shot is used more than once in the edit - but I did say "clever" - ** path of least resistance there would be to just render the whole clip if it is used more one time in EDL)
 
The feature missing you are looking for is EDL support in Redcine.
 
I was really hoping this post would stir up some workflow ideas. Thanks for the reply thats a really innovative idea.

I knew some folks would offer that Red is not an indie filmmakers solution but in my humble opinion Red camera is simply not as good as 35mm film. At the end of the day it is merely a very good HD video camera. I say this mainly because the 4k aspect of this camera is nearly inaccessible.

In order to bring Red up to the level of 35mm you have to spend a lot of money. So much so that in many cases it is not cheeper to shoot on 35mm than it is on Red. Therefore why would you shoot your Heinekin commercial on Red? If Red isn't striving to be a cheaper alternative to film production then clearly I'm not the only one confused.
 
laguun said:
The feature missing you are looking for is EDL support in Redcine.
Click to expand...

or TRUE NATIVE SUPPORT in FCP.

no worries, soon you can export your FCP timeline into After Effects and relink to R3D files ... but rest assured, Ian will give you a few more reason to contemplate just how much your time is worth and how cheap you want to be ...
 
eamonic said:
In order to bring Red up to the level of 35mm you have to spend a lot of money. So much so that in many cases it is not cheeper to shoot on 35mm than it is on Red. Therefore why would you shoot your Heinekin commercial on Red? If Red isn't striving to be a cheaper alternative to film production then clearly I'm not the only one confused.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I'm not sure how you are doing your math.

A Heinekin commercial is less expensive on Red than 35mm any day.

Now, if you are are trying to DEY (do EVERYTHING yourself) - that's another story. You might have to invest in the tools to do the job. But when you shoot 35mm, you don't process the film in your bathtub.
 
$200 is a deal compared to the hassle and money spent on an Assistant editor to MANUALLY link shots up one by one. Its also a great bargain vs. Scratch. I use Redcine to fill the Histogram and then I take it into Color to create a look for virtually anything. If the project has a budget for Scratch, then we'll do that... If not we'll do Crimson > Color(w/BM or K3) > FCP > HDCAMSR.

Crimson was worth every penny I spent on it, I was able to show the Executive-Producer an Online color correction of available scenes in no time. Manually linking files would have taken all day, instead of using that day or night to Color Correct and Encode. Not to mention the money I've saved them versus just a preview in Scratch. Crimson is a must have in a Final Cut only workflow for no-budget, even into high budget shows that an On-set DAM could online an Editors Xml to show the Executives. When the Editor is over 100 miles away and using Pro Res media I dont have.

Yeah, theres plenty of ways to avoid Crimson. But none so far have cut so much time out of the Online Process. I consider it a tool, and just like all the other tools I've bought. It gets the job done.
 
We bought crimson.

But it is a workaround for a missing feature in RC.

The solution (EDL support in redcine) would solve the problems not only for apple, but also avid, autodesk, quantel etc.

Most people here cant wait for the native redcode Adobe support.
 
.R3d support in Color and a Quicktime update for 4096x2048, would be Ideal... for FCP workflow. It would cut Crimson out of the workflow. Or Secondaries in RedCine... For now...
 
eamonic said:
Therefore why would you shoot your Heinekin commercial on Red? If Red isn't striving to be a cheaper alternative to film production then clearly I'm not the only one confused.
Click to expand...

With cinematographers like Paul Cameron and Darius Khondji shooting commercials with RED, I'd have to say there are a lot of reasons to shoot your Heinekin commercial on RED.
I also believe to do so would in fact save production some cash.
 
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