RED, please silence editing rumors

[Johann Schulz]

Leo, I want to go the more organic route:

Can we have a pic of you as a knarly old knot in a twisting old tree root that's barely ready to even try to smile? ;>)

On the Table: You're absolutely worth the respect and professionalism everyone here treats you with. I'm honoured to read and learn from you. Thanks a million!

 

[Leo Ticheli]

Hi Rob,

We shot to Red Drive: 4K, 16x9, 23.98 fps, RedCode 28.

Color Grade in RedCine to uncompressed 10-bit, 1080p, edit in FCS on Mac G5, 8-core, 16 GB RAM.

We also pulled some stills using RedAlert; I think the still frame capability blew them away more than anything else.

Good shooting!

Leo

 

[Rob Gardner]

Thanks, Leo. What was your render time to get to 10 bit 1080p?
Rob Gardner

 

[Thor Wixom]

Hey Thor, (Sorry all, a bit of a backstroke for the Olympics!),

In your post #12 in this thread you say you're not a fan of Apple or FCP/FCS2 but you don't mention what you are a fan of. What do you think is better?

I've researched Macs and PCs for over ten years and it's few and far between that a PC has ever beaten a Mac! Prove me wrong! Unless you're counting viruses, spam, meddling by third parties, hideous designs which cause eye strain, instability with a side order of aggravation as you try to figure out who made what and where to find the fix... RED went with Apple first because they're the best. Now eat your broccoli! ;>)

BTW, I love you.

Johann,

I am a fan of Premiere on a PC. I am aware of its shortcomings, but I prefer it. It's more intuitive to me.

Also, Apple releases new machines every so often. (About once or twice a year, I think? I don't follow that side as closely, so please correct me if I'm wrong.) And they usually stop short of the absolute fastest (read most expensive) configurations. They try to hit somewhere in the middle of price and performance, but on the PC side you can go as far toward performance as your budget will allow.

I have witnessed realtime 4k editing on PC laptop running Premiere, and utilizing the Cineform codec. You just can't do that on a Macbook Pro. Sorry, but you just can't.

No matter how much you might detest Microsoft, it's an open (enough) system to allow companies like Adobe to maximize what they can do with the coding. As opposed to Apple, who doesn't want companies poking around inside their code. In turn, Adobe's SDK allows companies like Cineform (and now Red) to plug into the architecture instead of being locked out.

Unless I'm mistaken, Apple wrote the code for the QT and FCP plug-ins (or at least the key components), not Red. This is why Red has had to weather criticisms about QT gamma, non-4k editing, etc, while not being able to improve the situation. For two years, it seemed that Red was not in control of its post destiny on the Mac side.

Conversely, Red was able to write their own code for Premiere and After Effects, and I believe this will lead to more progress in a shorter amount of time.

Apple had an exclusive for 2 years. Lets see how far things go on the Windows side in two years from now.

-Thor

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Sounds like we may need another post production workflow conference.

Anyone want to travel to the Boston area? A post production bootcamp might be in order so people can see hands on how to work with Red footage in post from the low end, indy style up through the high end Scratch style.

Jonathan, this might be a good opportunity to witness an Avid first hand. Yes, Avid is old school, but they're also working their butts off to stay on the top of their game right now. They have toolsets that just are not as well implemented in other apps because they've had clients who are household names and you have to have an app that works as advertised to get those kind of clients. When they implement a Red workflow, it will be robust. Why? Because it has to be.

FCP is a wonderful suite of software. I use it all the time (I also use Avid on occasion and grew up on Avid). It still has room to grow. Hopefully Apple is willing to climb that mountain. Adobe seems serious about making some noise in the NLE world as well, and it looks very promising in terms of Red support. I look forward to seeing what it can do.

But we are dealing with the here and now, right? Okay, let's look at that.

FCP supports proxy editing, log/transfer editing, and of course transcoded footage. Glue Tools makes DPX possible in FCP. You can finish right in FCP using any of these methods or you can generate cut lists which can be taken to Crimson>Redcine/Redline, Color, Scratch, etc. FCP does not support 10 bit RGB. It does not support Red 4K, and it does not access the 4K R3D natively.

Avid has some interim workflows in place utilizing 3rd party software which allow you to import QT reference files and associated metadata. Avid is working on solutions that will streamline this process, and with the release of the SDK this should get the ball rolling soon I would think. Avid will be a major player in this. It only makes sense. And when they do catch up, so won't a lot of the industry.

Adobe will have full native Red support in the coming weeks. Open up an R3D in Premiere Pro, choose debarying settings, adjust metadata, finish in Premiere or open natively in After Effects. This has a lot of potential and due to Adobe's support for RAW image processing, we might see some of those benefits with Red.

It's all getting there. It hasn't happened as fast as we would like in some ways, but I think we have to remember that we went from most of us maxing out at 1080P for our HD shoots to 4K resolution practically overnight. Our expectations are high, and no doubt there's a lot on the line here, but we have to take logical steps to get to where we need to go.

So, what do you think, Red Post bootcamp? Maybe this fall. Boston? The leaves on the trees will be nice and colorful. We can even test out the codec, see if we can break it.

For those who were at the NAB workflow event, I felt like we were just starting to crack the surface. We are much further along now, and will be even more so in a couple of months.

 

[adiel4]

paintthetownred, this company wasn't started to do your job for you.

If you can't get (or keep) clients or projects then that is YOUR PROBLEM. Not Red's.

If you want a tutorial so bad, make it yourself.

These people don't live to coddle you.

Be a professional. Stop demanding things and start relying on your own abilities.

Think for a moment how aggressive Apple has always been in educating people about FCS, that is a big part of their success making it the standard NLE it is now (at the expense of Avid). Red One is a new company with a new paradigm and they must do a way better job to make training material readily available... THEY are the ones competing with panavision, arri, thomson viper, dalsa.... but at this point they still look just like a science project....

 

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

Think for a moment how aggressive Apple has always been in educating people about FCS, that is a big part of their success making it the standard NLE it is now (at the expense of Avid).

I would not say it is "the" standard.

There is no real definitive winner. They all have strengths and downfalls.