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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

How to defend RED

lewis said:
I meant "one way to defend red" (cf: the post title) is to underline the budget difference shooting with Red makes (lots of savings on the stock+lab expenses). Convincing producers on the questions of money is one good step to make Red more "job friendly" on a pro gig... Producers respond to money questions, especially if they are significant...
:wink:
Click to expand...

This was the major reason most of my clients went to digital still photography over film. The advertising people were skeptical but the people who write the checks forced the issue until they realized digital was actually a step forward in quality.

I think budget issues will also be the biggest push towards digital capture for films and commercials too.
 
Forgive me if I'm out of line for saying this, but: The Red is what it is!

Just because you own a RED doesn’t make you a DIT or a DP or even a data manager.

Every time someone steps out and claims they know or make claims to make a buck. They are making it harder for people that really do know the job and the camera.

So, if you happen to be one of them and are reading this: let me just say think before you leap. For you are the ones giving this Camera what ever bad press it is getting.

L Crosley. soc
Digital Imaging & Data Management Tech
Dragon's Eye's Productions
 
from a post point of view it is a great thing.

full 4k files to do whatever you want with......mmmmm....resoultion.....!!

we have the same trouble here in Australia except i took the approach of not saying anything and just delivering the job. colour graders were all "it's such a pain in the butt, it'll cause you problems, ect.."

only when they got the files and had absolutley no problems at all did they tell us that this was their second job ever with the RED files.

i love the passion on this site - keep it up!!
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Who cares... Good ACs like a challenge.. They say "Don't care what what you put in front of me, I'll make it sing... It's what I do."

RED is growing... Fast. Here's what I tell people, and it usually quiets the room pretty quick:

"RED is like the weather. You can like it or not, but either way, it's coming.. So if I were you... I'd get ready."
Click to expand...

I'm a 2nd AC, and LOVE the RED. I've talked to many of my fellow crew members. and most ( but not all - thankfully there ARE some intelligent open minded folks out there) seem to have the same negative mentality that you guys are talking about.
Thanx for the comebacks..I will be using them regularly!!! :)
 
My approach is to not defend Red. It is a camera and a workflow. It should be chosen based on the project's style, content, etc. Hopefully if Red has been chosen, it has been an informed decision and the producer, director, DP, etc don't necessarily need to be convinced unless it is their first job with it. And even then, it's more important to let the camera speak for itself and make sure their is a good support system for it on set.

My approach with ACs has been to assist them with camera functionality if they have never used it before and to have a very open mind to their suggestions, concerns, etc. I enjoy having an open dialogue with them and when they raise a good point about an accessory that would be useful or something they would like to see implemented in the camera's firmware, I take note.

Overall, even the skeptics have been pretty much convinced on the shoots I've been on. Mostly because the image quality has really impressed them, and perhaps to a certain extent because I always try to maintain a professional attitude no matter what is said about the camera whether it's negative or positive. It's the same approach I take when marketing the camera. I will be honest when I don't think it's the right fit for a job.

Red has come a long way in the past year. It will start to become less mysterious to those on the outside looking in and a lot of people will begin to approach it like they do with most other cameras. I think some of the negativity probably stems from the hype and constant chatter about the camera. Some people just don't want to hear about it and that can translate to a preconceived resistance to it. To a certain degree I can understand that. The proof is in the images.
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
Steve,

First do this... Check out this partial list of what's been shot. Then you can easily multiply this by 50 as commercials and music videos are not listed.

http://www.imdb.com/SearchTechnical?RED One
Click to expand...
Erm... NOT such a good idea.
(Excuse me if someone else has already mentioned this)
That list includes a large number of films dating from wa-a-a-ay before 2007, including one made in 1912!

Regardless of how deserved or undeserved you feel the REDs reputation for software unreliability is, directing critics to such an obviously bug-infested web page will not be too helpful!

Anyway, a lot of those films that ARE made with RED sound like absolute trash, whose only distribution will likely be via the producer's PC DVD burners:wink:

I'd suggest somebody compile a list of quality projects that have been shot on RED, and maybe seen on TV or in theaters. Shovelware lists like that one won't help your cause one bit.
 
I not really understand the Tread.
Honestly most of the bad feelings comes from the fanboys who really do not exept that the RED had (has) it's pitties.

Lets face it
Booting problems codec errors limited to some plattform workflow.
Yes all this was settled or will be fixed soon.
Lets say how you make happy clients.
Infact we still waiting for our red's we rent from Ludwig.

They are not fanboys, so they tell us before the production all known shortcommings of the RED. They give us a day free in their warehouse with one of their engeneers, hold up backup and even an alternate product.
If at the beginning all rental house would breef their clients far away from any hype, people would have more trust.
But lets say it in a simple way. Thinks change to better.
big enhancement of picture under build 16
codeerror fix which fix it to 99%
SDK, so in future we will have a bigger choise about the workflow.
Hopefully fix of boot errors.
I thnks end ofthe year most people will acept the RED.
Its like Chek Lap KOK airport in HongKong
At the geginning everzthing was beta, a lot of thinks was lost temp. and a lot of people very dissapointed, only several later most people agree Vhek Lap Kok is one of the most edvanced airports in the world.
 
I was visiting the largest rental house in Nairobi and we got into a discussion about the RED.

Mid last year, I brought to the owner's attention to the RED as we were discussing which cameras, we as an industry, need to buy for the East African market.

He is an accomplished film maker and TV journalist in his right. He had just acquired a 4 of the Sony PDW F330s (1/2 inch XDCAM) sometime before to serve all the visiting journalists and a Middle Eastern "Gulf" global broadcasting corp. His argument then was there was no point in investing in a camera even though its cheaper and better than the F330s, what kind of post workflow could be employed? As you can imagine XDCAM brought the "tapeless" revolution here, and being the first to aquire that, this rental house was on top of the heap.

Fast Forward to last week, a full feature has been shot in Nairobi. I have sen some footage and played with in REDCine. The pictures look awesome. I am in the office. The owner of the rental house comes in and says, " I want to get a RED and go and test it out in Samburu (= beautiful northern Kenya). But I think the RED is a lot of 'wank wank'".

I realised what the problem we ("REDists") have is that we are fighting a legacy of knowledge, investment and heritage of film and broadcast. RED is an electronic camera not mechanical (having read about the post from Brasil ) and it is intimidating.

The photographer/geek loves RED. I am one of these. I am consulted on motion graphic jobs and help with some of the rental house's post-prod pipeline issues. "I will spend the money on the RED and not on XDCAM now", I say.

"You still can't work with it on the field with 3 minute cards".
"Well, RED shoots CF discs that are now at 10 minutes or so and on a drive that can hold two and half hours of footage".
"Two and a half hours of what?"
"Two and a half hours of 4K footage with 4 channels of 24 bit audio."

I smile.
 
Plasmatic said:
Erm... NOT such a good idea.
(Excuse me if someone else has already mentioned this)
That list includes a large number of films dating from wa-a-a-ay before 2007, including one made in 1912!

Regardless of how deserved or undeserved you feel the REDs reputation for software unreliability is, directing critics to such an obviously bug-infested web page will not be too helpful!

Anyway, a lot of those films that ARE made with RED sound like absolute trash, whose only distribution will likely be via the producer's PC DVD burners:wink:

I'd suggest somebody compile a list of quality projects that have been shot on RED, and maybe seen on TV or in theaters. Shovelware lists like that one won't help your cause one bit.
Click to expand...

A current and complete "Shot on Red" list sounds like a great idea.
 
I am organizing a RED training workshop for Assistants here in Toronto. This will be sponsored by the Canadian Society of Cinematographers.

The idea is to focus specifically on assistants (unlike a RED bootcamp) and get them comfortable with the system as it relates to their job.

Hopefully this will help assistants get over any kind of stigma that may be attached to the RED for them.

There is also selfish motivation - I want to make sure I have a competent assistant for RED when my regular 1st isn't available!

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmcleod.com
 
dmacleod said:
I am organizing a RED training workshop for Assistants here in Toronto. This will be sponsored by the Canadian Society of Cinematographers.

The idea is to focus specifically on assistants (unlike a RED bootcamp) and get them comfortable with the system as it relates to their job.

Hopefully this will help assistants get over any kind of stigma that may be attached to the RED for them.

There is also selfish motivation - I want to make sure I have a competent assistant for RED when my regular 1st isn't available!

Dylan Macleod
Cinematographer
Toronto, Canada
www.dylanmcleod.com
Click to expand...

Cheers to that Dylan!!
Good to see that's happening here in Canada. Please keep us posted as to when this may occur. I, for one, will be there with willing anticipation, provided you accept AC's from here out west? :)
 
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