Creating the right pulldown in AE

[Hop Litzwire]

Luckily, I'm working with semi-experimental footage here, but I've got a bit of a conundrum regarding the often discusssed 24fps >29.97 workflow. From the top, I output 4K 24P footage from RedCine to a 2k Tiff Seq. Imported it into AE, interpreting it as 24fps. On the first render, I added effects and rendered out to 1080i/29.97. Of course, it speeds the footage up a bit, but looks smooth nonetheless, as each frame is represented progressively. On the next render, I add a pull-down to achieve the correct timing, and even though the 2 interlaced frames look interlaced during the render, and the timing is correct, it plays like total crap on my 1080i/29.97. The 3 progressive frames look good, but the two interlaced frames are not "interlacing" properly as you would see from either a true telecine process or 24p/60i HD Camera footage. There was another render that I did where I got the timing correct, and a sort of 3:2 pulldown resulted, but the 2 frames were not interlaced - it's basically 4 progressive frames followed by a progressive copy of the 4th frame - resulting in a visually clean but juttery motion. I can't remember what I did to get that setting. Now, let me just say - before I get Dadded on the topic - that if I was shooting something myself, and knew that the ultimate result will be 29.97, I would indeed probably shoot it that way from the beginning - or at least at 30fps. But someone might eventually come to me with 4k/24fps footage, or if shooting myself, I might be working with a producer who incorrectly demands we shoot 24p, and I'd like to know how to fix this problem when the result has to be 1080i/29.97. Anyone familiar with this problem and can give me some setting suggestions?

Thanks in advance for advice.

 

[Kenn Christenson]

Make sure you are rendering Upper Field First - when you are rendering interlaced HD footage.

 

[Hop Litzwire]

Yes - the upper field consideration was the problem. I'm happenin' now.

 

[BENTrandom]

This sounds like really good base information to have. Like you said someone not knowing the intended final output could bring you 24P but want TV broadcast footage.

Are you just setting AE to render out at 29.97 or are you creating a new sequence with that frame rate beforehand?

 

[Hop Litzwire]

Here was my exact workflow: 1080/24fps TIFF sequence footage output from 4K/24 original using REDCINE. Import Seq into AfterFX. In Interpret Footage Main dialog, conform footage to 23.976. Make sure field separation is set to off in that dialog. Create a comp or drag footage to comp window, wherein the correct settings for footage will be automatically created (1920x1080, 23.276). Add desired effects or color (added DFT55mm Diffusion in my case). Add to render queue. Click the render settings and set field render to upper fields and choose WWSSW as a pulldown cadence from the dropdown menu. Your output framerate will now automatically change to 29.97. Render! Import into 29.97 project. Bingo! Looks awesome. My system (Matrox Axio) does allow for 1080/23.98 projects wherein I don't have to add pulldown for footage there, but if you already have 1080/29.97 project going with perhaps existing HD camera footage, and you need to add some 24fps footage dumped on you from who knows where in the middle of the edit, you can add the pull-down that way before you bring it into the show and your good.

 

[Thor Wixom]

Lizwire,

Make sure we stay in touch... I have two Axio LE systems. I'm sure we'll be comparing notes in the future.

-Thor

 

[Hop Litzwire]

Sure thing. Working just fine here. The workflow is not as cumbersome as some would believe. I'm using just a couple of steps so far. I'm using one of these now:
Option1 - REDCine > 1080/24p lossless QT or 2K TIFF Seq > Premier (Matrox 1080/23.98 project)
Option2 - REDCine > 1080/24p lossless QT or 2K TIFF Seq > AfterFX for effects/coloring > Premier
Option3 - REDCine > 1080/24p lossless QT or 2K Tiff Seq > Premier (coupled with AfterFX as a dynamic link for effects and coloring without adding another transcode process to the footage).

Option3 seems to work just fine if your project isn't too big, but I imagine that depending on your system, you might run out of memory using dynamic link on a bigger project.

By the way, you do have to render those QTs on your Matrox timeline unless your system is really kickin', but it's a quick render. Would be neat if you could render right out of REDCine to Matrox AVI, but alas.... So far, I'm just doing spots so it hasn't been a problem, but for long form rendering those QTs might be a bear. Might add a Cineform system for RED-only stuff when the time comes. Everything that I've done so far with RED looks tack sharp on my HD production monitor. Fun stuff.

 

[Thor Wixom]

I've been using option number 2:

Option2 - REDCine > 1080/24p lossless QT or 2K TIFF Seq > AfterFX for effects/coloring > Premiere

I've been going to 1080p Quicktime then rendering out to the Matrox codec.

It's cubersome compared to the way I'm used to working, but it's not impossible.

I'm really looking forward to the SDK, Cineform, and whatever other post solutions may be in the works.

-Thor

 

[Hop Litzwire]

Yes - Option2 does help avoid any hangups in your Matrox project, and it's probably the best way to go.

I'm with you - as are many others - on the Cineform thing. Poor guys, David Taylor and Newman....they are under a heap of pressure to deliver something great for a large number of users. But such is the life of a video/film software creator.

Cheers!