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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CineForm posts updated Mac workflow

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David Taylor

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CineForm's updated Mac workflow (BETA) has been posted and is available for download from the Downloads section of the website. There are a number of new features in this build including:

  • Second monitor support
  • New panels for Active Metadata. A global Active Metadata panel is now located in /Sytem/Preferences. Clip based Active Metadata controls are made through the SetActiveMetadata utility located in /Applications/CineForm. When experimenting with Active Metadata you'll normally want to use only the SetActiveMetadata control (not the global control). The SetActiveMetadata panel should be kept active while using either FCP or QT Player for dynamic adjusting of color information.
  • Active Metadata is now supported for CineForm 444 clips also with identical operation to that in FCP. This means you can render out from RAW without baking in color information, then apply Active Metadata on the CF-444 clips instead.
Following is a link to a zip file with four CineForm 2K MOV files in it: https://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=Q01IZXQxeWFoMlZFQlE9PQ. Two of the files are Cineform RAW and two of the files are CineForm 444. You can put all four on the timeline simultaneously. There are (I think) three LUTs inside the zip file also. You can register the LUTs by double-clicking on them or else importing them using SetActiveMetadata.

We'll get the first rev of our Tech Note published in the next day or two. Currently documentation is a bit sparse. Please let us know what comments you have.
 
Thanks man ! Finally it's coming for Mac !
 
Hi David,

Just downloaded the new codec trial. ive got the system preferences and the new setMetadata app, so it seems like it has installed. However i tried converting a DVCPRO-HD clip to cineform to try out the look files on the Cineform 444 and it reencoded fine and plays back fine, but the setting active metadata didnt seem to work. I'm in the process of Downloading the samples (thanks for those btw, ive been wanting SI to put some up on their website from that camera, but i think like you they are a bit strapped for manpower) so i'll give those a go. the app seems to load the look, but the clip doesn't seem to change colour.

Now i didnt uninstall the old version of cineform so that might be it.

Running tiger 10.4.11, Quicktime 7.5 on a Mac Book Pro with ATI X1600.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Mark
 
Mark, I'll need David Newman to opine about the reason why, but I think if your source is a 4:2:2 clip (such as DVCPro HD), its chroma will NOT be expanded to 4:4:4 on a render into a CineForm file. Currently Active Metadata does not support 4:2:2, although that might change in the future. I suspect that is the problem with your particular test. If you don't have other 4:4:4 source available then the clips in the download might be best for now.
 
Just an Update. I downloaded the Cineform clips from the link you posted.

And the setActiveMetaData works for the RAW clips but not the 444 clips. I'll have a bi more of a play and see how it goes. If you need any more info just give us a yell.

Btw, what Camera were these shot on. Red and then converted? or SI-2k. Because some of the older SI-2k footage thats cine-raw looks quite a bit better than these in my opinion.

just my 2c
 
Chocblu,

Good find. We have an initial conditions problem with the Global Control panel in /System/Preferences which we'll fix in the next build.

In the mean time there seems to be a workaround. Bring up the CineForm panel in /System/Preferences and enable all the Global Controls. This *should* fix the problem.

The Global controls panel in the next build (shortly) will default to all of these controls being ON.

David.
 
Ray, we take a deep breath about our website too right now. With our finite resources we have focused (for better or worse) on product innovation. But we realize the website is intimidating, with information not organized as well as it should be. For newcomers it can be and often is frustrating. This will be fixed. But in the mean time try to put up with it for just a little longer knowing that the innovation that underlies the website is strong....
 
Thanks David!

although it might be a little more complicated than it seems at first. I Did actually have those global preferences turned on at first, but then i quit out of FCP, and turned them all off, then went back into FCP and turned them back on and it worked. So now i can apply looks to all the clips.

While Im at it, before hen i was trying to zoom in on the clips i was getting a wierd multicoloured overlay on top of the clips, and the same thing was hapening with Cinema Desktop. After the restart of FCP and with the 444 active metaData working its not doing it now. So that might help track down the bug.

Still no luck with a DVCPRO-HD clip thats been encoded however, But the other david suggested this is due to the 422 nature of the clip.

Hope this helps!

Mark
 
CineForm just posted another update for its Mac workflow. Included are many new Active Metadata features such as:
  • Active Metadata is now supported for ALL CineForm file types (Raw/444/422).

  • Fixed a bug in renders through transitions in FCP.
  • Fixed a bug in YUV playback.
  • Improved QuickTime playback performance a bit.
Request the "Mac Codec" (soon to be renamed Neo-Mac) on CineForm's downloads page. http://www.cineform.com/products/Downloads/Downloads.htm

Take a look at the Tech Note posted for Mac Active Metadata usage here: http://www.cineform.com/products/TechNotes/SetActiveMetadata-Mac.htm.
 
Ray, On Windows (as you may be aware) our HD Link is shipping which converts myriad camera formats into CineForm files (as well as performing inverse telecine, spatial resampling, deinterlacing, etc). HD Link is not yet shipping on Mac, but will be later this year.

By September-ish we will roll out the first set of conversion/image processing features on Mac that together will build out the first Mac version of HD Link (although it will be renamed). Ultimately DVCPro HD (P2) conversion will also be included. In the short term, specifically for P2 conversion, you have two options: 1) use the Windows version of HD Link (PC or Bootcamp), or 2) render to CineForm files from Compressor or from the FCP timeline. The latter options will be slower but might be more convenient. The former option will be faster (elapsed time) but may be a nuisance if you don't have Windows available. Conversion is a relatively simple process that takes source files and batch converts them to Cineform files with (optional) signal processing applied during conversion. The resulting files are 10-bit (422) or 12-bit CineForm 444 files with enough headroom to stand up to extreme movement in post.

Regarding Active Metadata.... In general AM is most helpful for "Raw" data. I use the quotes because in this case "Raw" would also include the Filmstream mode from a Viper - basically any camera from which no color information baked in. With YUV sources (P2 and others) you already have WB and saturation matrices baked in, so arguably Active Metadata is less valuable, and traditional color correction might be the best way to go. But if you're after a special look, then applying a 3D LUT to your material is a great way to experiment with various Look Intents. Because the LUTs are applied in RT (no rendering) and are non-destructive it is a quick way to experiment. Remember, the AM model with 3D LUTs is not intended to eliminate traditional color correction. Instead it assists with Look Intent. You can easily color correct on top of an applied Look. We have numerous additional features to add to Active Metadata that will further improve workflow efficiency and normalizing the Look of content in a project, especially when it derives from different camera sources - but that is a bit later.

Now, the above also assumes there is a library of LUTs available for your use, or else you can create your own. To create your own LUTs on Mac you need Speedgrade On Set (Iridas). I don't remember the exact price - I was thinking it was around $400. (With Prospect 4K on Windows we can export LUTs directly from the PPro timeline also). We also intend some other ways for users to get access to LUTs, but we haven't yet worked the details so I'll keep that under wraps for now.

More as an FYI than anything else, he Mac version of our "codec" will soon be renamed into the Neo-Mac family as it now obviously has more features than just a "codec".
 
CineForm just posted Mac v1.91 Build 60. This version threads the scaling code used by FCP for images larger than HD when using the Digital Cinema (second monitor) display mode. Additional glabal controls have been added to minimize the well-known funky gamma decisions made by FCP.

Active Metadata for enhancing Color workflows on MacOS is in pretty good shape - worthy of experimenting with. On Mac, 3D LUTs (part of Active Metadata) need to be generated using Iridas Speedgrade OnSet. We provide a link to the SoS Trial in the CineForm Mac download.

This release exceeds both features and performance of the NAB demo that some may have seen.
 
David Taylor said:
CineForm just posted Mac v1.91 Build 60. This version threads the scaling code used by FCP for images larger than HD when using the Digital Cinema (second monitor) display mode. Additional glabal controls have been added to minimize the well-known funky gamma decisions made by FCP.

Active Metadata for enhancing Color workflows on MacOS is in pretty good shape - worthy of experimenting with. On Mac, 3D LUTs (part of Active Metadata) need to be generated using Iridas Speedgrade OnSet. We provide a link to the SoS Trial in the CineForm Mac download.

This release exceeds both features and performance of the NAB demo that some may have seen.
Click to expand...

David,

Great news. I've been talking locally with Mr. Miyajima about adopting Cineform for our RED ONE postproduction services. Looking forward for the future cooperation.

Also, can you tell me if there's a way to use Cineform codec in the Color?
 
Kaku Ito said:
David,

Also, can you tell me if there's a way to use Cineform codec in the Color?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the problem of playing CineForm files in Color is a SW architecture problem in Color. When Color was designed (before Apple acquired it) it never supported any QuickTime codecs. It only supported a handful of codecs that were specifically complied in. Apple has acknowledged the problem, but they didn't (as is usual for them) give us an indication of when it would be fixed.

Your options for Color are ProRes (but it is only YUV) or DPX files (very large). You can convert Cineform files into either. At the end of the day using Color has some limitations for high spatial resolution and RGB sources.
 
David,

Yeah, that problem leads to cumbersomeness to other codec editing on the color, too bad that Apple is not fixing it for a long time.

So, I tried to use other tools like Color Finesse, Colorista and look but actually Color is the most intuitive with secondary editing.

I wanted to ask you questions on Cineform for Mac, I transcoded from REDCINE to Cineform, then import the clip to Cineform then been editing with FCP, but it is quite slow to edit. Am I missing any setting to edit more fluently?

Kaku

Here's what we are working on right now.
DUCATI Collectives

Edit: I forgto to mention that Colorista and Look only works below 2k. When you use 4K cineform size and those two plug-ins, FCP tells you that it will be processed 2K. However, Color Finesse works with 4K Cineform clips. If Color Finesse come out with geometry features then it will be a good choice (already does 8ch of secondaries).
 
Hi Kaku,

Take a look at the Readme notes first - there are some performance-improving tips inside the notes. Then if those don't help you, please send us an email - we'll be glad to help you with configuration. Please send to dtaylor at cineform dot com and I'll connect you with the right people.
 
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