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Forest service special use permits
- Thread starter Mike F.
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Tico Llaurador
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In my experience, you're better off dealing directly with the local FS office where you'll be shooting. They'll steer you right. But, then again, that's my own experience.
Others may want to chime in.
Others may want to chime in.
Tom Lowe
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What kind of shoot?
Noah Kadner
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Hopefully not one where the forest is blown up- that's a tough permit to get.
Noah
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Be VERY careful. I showed insurance, the script, and wrote a check for 2 days shooting permit, and had an 'enforcement' USFS officer write us a $500 ticket for shooting "their" forest from a county road running through the NF area on day 3. No obstruction of anything, it was just a revenue opportunity.
Ask a lot of 'what if' questions. Assume nothing but the desire on their part to increase revenue.
The folks in the NF office where we shot might have been the control freak outcasts on a bad week, but still.......
As the younger folks in brown and green uniforms always say....."Be prepared".
zieman99
Ask a lot of 'what if' questions. Assume nothing but the desire on their part to increase revenue.
The folks in the NF office where we shot might have been the control freak outcasts on a bad week, but still.......
As the younger folks in brown and green uniforms always say....."Be prepared".
zieman99
Phil Bates
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I remember when I was shooting timelapse of the SKY on Mt. Evans and was stopped by a ranger. There seemed to be some disagreement as whether shooting the sky required a permit, but nevertheless I was billed $400 a month later.
Phil
http://www.artbeats.com
Phil
http://www.artbeats.com
Meryem Ersoz
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it can depend on what you want to do and where...the rules and their enforcement can vary from state to state, assuming this is the US...
Phil Bates
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Other than the above experience, I've had very little trouble. Usually if it is a couple of people in one vehicle with one camera it should be ok. It seems that the main concern is that they don't want you to take up a lot of parking or be in the way. We still check with the ranger station or call ahead but it's usually a formality.
National Parks are usually a bigger deal than National Forests, however, we just shot in Olympic and Lassen National Parks last week without any problem, even near the entrance stations in site of the staff.
Sometimes we have been required to apply for a permit as in Petrified Forest National Park several years ago. Also, we applied for a permit to shoot aerials at Lake Powell. They required us to pay a refundable $25K deposit in case they had to recover the helicopter from the water. We were allowed to shoot low level at Rainbow Bridge only if no other hikers were around. During the same time we were denied aerial permits for Canyonlands National Park and Vermillion Cliffs because of sheep and nesting raptors (they said come back in the Fall). It really depends on the situation and it is always a good idea to call ahead.
Phil
http://www.artbeats.com
National Parks are usually a bigger deal than National Forests, however, we just shot in Olympic and Lassen National Parks last week without any problem, even near the entrance stations in site of the staff.
Sometimes we have been required to apply for a permit as in Petrified Forest National Park several years ago. Also, we applied for a permit to shoot aerials at Lake Powell. They required us to pay a refundable $25K deposit in case they had to recover the helicopter from the water. We were allowed to shoot low level at Rainbow Bridge only if no other hikers were around. During the same time we were denied aerial permits for Canyonlands National Park and Vermillion Cliffs because of sheep and nesting raptors (they said come back in the Fall). It really depends on the situation and it is always a good idea to call ahead.
Phil
http://www.artbeats.com
Tom Lowe
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I don't have helo experience like Phil, but I want to echo his first statement. I shoot in National Forests and Parks all the time, and have never had a permit and have never had any rangers or anyone bother me. Quite the opposite. They are very friendly and helpful.
Keep in mind that I am just one guy with one camera. That's why I asked what type of shoot it is. If you have actors and crew, then yeah, it can be tough. But even then it can be done if you are stealthy and use common sense!
If it's just one guy and one camera, the best excuse, if you get caught, is to just say, "I'm a hobbyist" or "I'm just doing some camera tests." That sort of thing. Unless you come right out and say you're shooting this stuff for profit, how are they to know?
Only trouble I had was one night when I was shooting in a no-camping area all night at Joshua Tree. I became so sleepy in the middle of the night that I pulled out a cot and fell asleep next to my SUV and camera. This technically constituted "camping" so I got a $45 ticket.
Keep in mind that I am just one guy with one camera. That's why I asked what type of shoot it is. If you have actors and crew, then yeah, it can be tough. But even then it can be done if you are stealthy and use common sense!
If it's just one guy and one camera, the best excuse, if you get caught, is to just say, "I'm a hobbyist" or "I'm just doing some camera tests." That sort of thing. Unless you come right out and say you're shooting this stuff for profit, how are they to know?
Only trouble I had was one night when I was shooting in a no-camping area all night at Joshua Tree. I became so sleepy in the middle of the night that I pulled out a cot and fell asleep next to my SUV and camera. This technically constituted "camping" so I got a $45 ticket.
Meryem Ersoz
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Hauling around a RED camera will attract much more attention than a DSLR, not to mention the fact that the laws and fee structures are different for still photographers than for video.
The fee structure was originated to apply to Hollywood and large-budget films and has not been revised since it was implemented. My friend Kevin is involved in getting the laws changed, so that one-man bands and smaller outfits don't get hit with the same fee structure as larger operations.
Here's his blog about it:
http://www.silverphoenixllc.com/phoenixblog/?p=16
You can still get away with shooting without permits in many instances, if you are just one person with a camera. But not always.
Yellowstone has very strict enforcement of their rules, for example. So does Yosemite, I have been told. Many places here in Colorado and also in Utah do not.
That's why I asked, where are you shooting, how many of you, etc. It will make a difference. The rules vary, and the enforcement varies.
The smart move would be to check with National Parks or Forest Service rules in the area in which you plan to shoot, and then talk to some local shooters about the reality of enforcement.
The fee structure was originated to apply to Hollywood and large-budget films and has not been revised since it was implemented. My friend Kevin is involved in getting the laws changed, so that one-man bands and smaller outfits don't get hit with the same fee structure as larger operations.
Here's his blog about it:
http://www.silverphoenixllc.com/phoenixblog/?p=16
You can still get away with shooting without permits in many instances, if you are just one person with a camera. But not always.
Yellowstone has very strict enforcement of their rules, for example. So does Yosemite, I have been told. Many places here in Colorado and also in Utah do not.
That's why I asked, where are you shooting, how many of you, etc. It will make a difference. The rules vary, and the enforcement varies.
The smart move would be to check with National Parks or Forest Service rules in the area in which you plan to shoot, and then talk to some local shooters about the reality of enforcement.
Tom Lowe
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I'm not just talking about DSLR shooting. Here are pics of us shooting actual scenes with actors at Joshua Tree (one of the most strictly enforced parks in the US) with absolutely no permit. We shot all day out there, with dollies, fake weapons (for the actor's reel), etc. Haha. The one ranger who stopped me on a shoot like this, I just told him it was a "student film" not for profit, and he left us alone. "Okay, you boys mind the rules."
All of this conversation is relative, though. If you take your big camera setup (and god forbid actors) and set up in the middle of a crowded part of the park, right off the highway or whatever, then yeah, you are going to attract attention. If you simply take your gear and go 200 feet off the road, behind the trees, the chances of anyone even seeing you are 100 to 1. Common sense and a good "cover story" - ie, "I'm just shooting some lens tests" will get you by in many cases. For more overt shooting (like setting up a crane move at Delicate Arch), you should definitely seek permission.
All of this conversation is relative, though. If you take your big camera setup (and god forbid actors) and set up in the middle of a crowded part of the park, right off the highway or whatever, then yeah, you are going to attract attention. If you simply take your gear and go 200 feet off the road, behind the trees, the chances of anyone even seeing you are 100 to 1. Common sense and a good "cover story" - ie, "I'm just shooting some lens tests" will get you by in many cases. For more overt shooting (like setting up a crane move at Delicate Arch), you should definitely seek permission.