Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Avid workflow with red camera

L

lauren

New member
Joined
Jun 30, 2008
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hello all

I am currently working in a post production facility. We are working primarily on commercials. I am trying to get a solid answer regarding what hardware/software I need to use the red camera footage on an Avid to edit for Broadcast. Can anyone tell me the best way to approach our next project shot on the red camera 1 in regards to software/hardware/processes etc...thanks

Lauren
 
My idea is , Get 1 MacPro , minimum configuration , Then work with footage with proxys . When you will have ready timeline just render out it from REDCINE + Crimson . Thant you can get 10 Bit 2K ,HD DPX files , and go to AVID . And finish youre project in avid. For commercials you will need 10-15 minuts of good footage . Just with help of proxy files you can select good and bad footage.
 
Biba said:
My idea is , Get 1 MacPro , minimum configuration , Then work with footage with proxys . When you will have ready timeline just render out it from REDCINE + Crimson . Thant you can get 10 Bit 2K ,HD DPX files , and go to AVID . And finish youre project in avid. For commercials you will need 10-15 minuts of good footage . Just with help of proxy files you can select good and bad footage.
Click to expand...

That doen't make any sense. I think the OP wants to offline in Avid.

For now the workflow is all about creating an ALE and quicktimes.
Create the quicktimes in Redcine, REDline/Redalert or compressor. Set the codec to an Avid one for fast import later on. (DNxHD 36 is great for offline purposes but can only be done in Compressor at the moment, I think)
Create the ALE with the Redline automator actions or use Metacheater from www.staticpictures.com/metacheater

Import the ALE into Avid and then batch import the quicktimes from that ALE. Edit away.

After you have an offline cut you can either load an EDL in Scratch for native r3d file conform or export dpx in Redcine/Redline for Smoke, Avid DS or other finishing tools.

It's very elegant when you know how to do it.
Soon the workflow will be better when more software companies get access to the SDK.
 
rebusfilm said:
After you have an offline cut you can either load an EDL in Scratch for native r3d file conform or export dpx in Redcine/Redline for Smoke, Avid DS or other finishing tools.

It's very elegant when you know how to do it.
Soon the workflow will be better when more software companies get access to the SDK.
Click to expand...

Sure, it's very elegant if you don't mind rendering out the entire contents of every .R3D file from your shoot as DPX sequences (and Scratch in not an option for many of us).

Right now I would like to know if someone has come up with a simple workflow for generating an XML pull list for Redcine from an Avid offline. For many reasons, we're still running MC 2.8, and the easiest workflow I've seen is to output a decomposed OMF2 to FCP (which requires Automatic Duck). Then output an XML to Crimson. And, finally generate an XML out of Crimson for Redcine. BTW, I haven't tested this myself, so I'm not 100% sure it will work.

Please, someone tell me there's an easier way (and don't tell me to upgrade to MC 3.0, because it's just not possible right now).

Thanks,
Paul
 
The pull list will be out in a couple weeks - (mid-July). We are working out the final whitepaper and is going under review and final QA testing. This will have the pull list from Avid back to RedCine for all shots used. Shortly we will update those to have cuts + handles with optimization.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
The pull list will be out in a couple weeks - (mid-July). We are working out the final whitepaper and is going under review and final QA testing. This will have the pull list from Avid back to RedCine for all shots used. Shortly we will update those to have cuts + handles with optimization.

Michael
Click to expand...

Will this workflow require MC 3.0? If yes, we will probably upgrade one of our MC Soft copies to 3.0 to act as a conduit to generate the XML. All of our Avids would require new Intel Macs to go to 3.0, and we can't afford to do that this year.

Also, do you know if the workflow I described earlier (Avid to FCP to Crimson to Redcine) has been tested? And if it does work, I'm assuming there's no need to relink media in FCP, since we're just moving metadata. Is that correct?

Thanks,
Paul
 
you don't need intel macs for 3.0
we beta tested V3.0 on our dual2.5ghz G5's and they performed beautifully.
the only reason you need an intel mac is for the new Avid HW they announced because of its meridien style bus-card architecture.
otherwise upgrade away and enjoy the new stuff.
there is a random bug right now with Adrenaline boxes and leopard but we haven't seemed to find it. it crops up during digitizing but you can just restart the box/software and be fine apparently.
Avid is aware of it and working to fix it.
 
jedi666 said:
you don't need intel macs for 3.0
we beta tested V3.0 on our dual2.5ghz G5's and they performed beautifully.
the only reason you need an intel mac is for the new Avid HW they announced because of its meridien style bus-card architecture.
otherwise upgrade away and enjoy the new stuff.
there is a random bug right now with Adrenaline boxes and leopard but we haven't seemed to find it. it crops up during digitizing but you can just restart the box/software and be fine apparently.
Avid is aware of it and working to fix it.
Click to expand...

Thanks! That's very interesting, because here's exactly what it says on Avid's website:

Minimum system requirements for Media Composer Software - Mac
Processors:

* Intel dual, dual core 2.66 GHz Xeon
* Intel Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHz (laptops)

Unfortunately, I didn't carefully read the fine print which states that this is the recommended, Avid-qualified platform. But other non-Avid-qualified platforms could work fine (although, Avid will NOT provide support for non-qualified platforms, whatever THAT means).

Unfortunately, we are still not ready to purchase 14 software upgrades at this time. And I would like to wait until the Adrenaline/Mac issue is fully resolved . But it is nice to know that we can get some more life out of our 18-month-old G5s.

-Paul
 
The XML export is from Avid FilmScribe which can open bins from Meridian, and Adrenaline versions 1.x through latest release of v3. As of now, the XML to ALE are for HD workflows unless working at 25fps which is good for PAL and HD. 24fps in a NTSC based world needs to be HD for now. We will work on XML to ALE for NTSC which needs to do some timecode massaging and column reassignment.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
The XML export is from Avid FilmScribe which can open bins from Meridian, and Adrenaline versions 1.x through latest release of v3. As of now, the XML to ALE are for HD workflows unless working at 25fps which is good for PAL and HD. 24fps in a NTSC based world needs to be HD for now. We will work on XML to ALE for NTSC which needs to do some timecode massaging and column reassignment.

Michael
Click to expand...

I'm sorry Michael, but now I'm REALLY confused. My background is in Flame/Smoke conforming from film scanned DPX sequences (I don't use Avid). But I'm just trying to come up with an efficient RED to AVID for offline, and RED to FLAME for online workflow, which I will pass onto our Avid editors.

Now, why would I want to convert XML to ALE? I thought the whole point was to generate an XML pull list for Redcine. What is the purpose of generating an ALE file? I thought the ALE was just for getting metadata into the AVID for offline editing. Once I have an XML pull list to generate the DPX sequences, I just need a traditional EDL from Avid to execute the conform. Once I'm over that hurdle, I will work on XML and/or AAF conforming in Flame to bring in multi-layer timelines and effects.

Also, I'm assuming the FilmScribe XML export feature is only available in MC 3.0. Is this accurate?

Thanks,
Paul
 
prosckes said:
Sure, it's very elegant if you don't mind rendering out the entire contents of every .R3D file from your shoot as DPX sequences (and Scratch in not an option for many of us).
Click to expand...

You can do a DPX pull list by using multiple REDline commands with metadata from a decomposed ALE. That's how I have been doing it. I use a spreadsheet to generate the command and put Filename, TC IN and TC OUT into different cells. Then I execute the text file from Terminal. Not very high tech, but it works great.
 
Crimson Workflow

Crimson Workflow

lauren said:
Hello all

I am currently working in a post production facility. We are working primarily on commercials. I am trying to get a solid answer regarding what hardware/software I need to use the red camera footage on an Avid to edit for Broadcast. Can anyone tell me the best way to approach our next project shot on the red camera 1 in regards to software/hardware/processes etc...thanks

Lauren
Click to expand...

Try Crimson Workflow
 
Sorry!

Sorry!

rebusfilm said:
There's no Crimson workflow for Avid (yet). It's for FCP only.

And the hosting server is down which makes it kind of hard to install at the moment.
Click to expand...

Sorry for wrong guidance.
 
When working with RedCine to process your proxy dailies, you will have two steps;

1. Export R3D as Aid DNxHD and convert RedCine XML to ALE for the offline process. This includes all the metadata as tracked within RedCine to ensure the round trip*.
2. After editing, there will be an export to a RedCine Pull list. This is generated from the sequence via Avid FilmScribe. The first step is to generate a master XML of the sequence to which an XSLT file is applied to create the XML expected by RedCine. Once this XML has been imported, export from RedCine as DPX, etc, to process selected needed in final conform.

The above steps are about processing the selected for either offline or online. The conform step can be done with:

1. EDL that uses standard CMX 3600 and the short "reel ID" as defined by Red. For example "A001". This should match what is inserted into the DPX header along with timecode. The timecode as defined by RedCine which in turn uses the same timecode as defined as "primary" in camera
2. EDL that uses the full 16 character file name as source. This provides a more unique source ID and uses the same timecode as defined by RedCine which in turn uses the same timecode as defined as "primary" in camera.

Manufactures are welcome to use the Master XML as generated by Avid FilmScribe from which to conform - it contain all sequence, layers, and most FX descriptions. Keep in mind that this is NOT an AAF XML, but an XML representation as described by Avid FilmScribe. It is a subset of all the information contained within AAF.

Michael
 
MichaelP said:
When working with RedCine to process your proxy dailies, you will have two steps;

1. Export R3D as Aid DNxHD and convert RedCine XML to ALE for the offline process. This includes all the metadata as tracked within RedCine to ensure the round trip*.
2. After editing, there will be an export to a RedCine Pull list. This is generated from the sequence via Avid FilmScribe. The first step is to generate a master XML of the sequence to which an XSLT file is applied to create the XML expected by RedCine. Once this XML has been imported, export from RedCine as DPX, etc, to process selected needed in final conform.

The above steps are about processing the selected for either offline or online. The conform step can be done with:

1. EDL that uses standard CMX 3600 and the short "reel ID" as defined by Red. For example "A001". This should match what is inserted into the DPX header along with timecode. The timecode as defined by RedCine which in turn uses the same timecode as defined as "primary" in camera
2. EDL that uses the full 16 character file name as source. This provides a more unique source ID and uses the same timecode as defined by RedCine which in turn uses the same timecode as defined as "primary" in camera.

Manufactures are welcome to use the Master XML as generated by Avid FilmScribe from which to conform - it contain all sequence, layers, and most FX descriptions. Keep in mind that this is NOT an AAF XML, but an XML representation as described by Avid FilmScribe. It is a subset of all the information contained within AAF.

Michael
Click to expand...

This will be a great workflow when it is released .... we await!
 
MichaelP said:
When working with RedCine to process your proxy dailies, you will have two steps;

1. Export R3D as Aid DNxHD and convert RedCine XML to ALE for the offline process. This includes all the metadata as tracked within RedCine to ensure the round trip*.
2. After editing, there will be an export to a RedCine Pull list. This is generated from the sequence via Avid FilmScribe. The first step is to generate a master XML of the sequence to which an XSLT file is applied to create the XML expected by RedCine. Once this XML has been imported, export from RedCine as DPX, etc, to process selected needed in final conform.
Click to expand...

So will this basically be kind of like the Crimson Workflow? I went today to try and help a possible client figure out if he could get a working RED workflow on his Windows MC 2.8. The only method that I could come up with was to export all the footage at a low res with the clip name and timecode burned it. After the edit would be finished, the editor would have to manually go back and match the clips in RedCine, render them out, and then match them back up in MC. The client almost sounds like he wants to get a FCP system just because of how much easier it is work with RED footage.

Matthew
 
Similar in the sense that if you have the metadata, then you can export lists as needed. This removes an EDL from the process which is quite limiting when it comes to FX, laters, etc.

Michael
 
prosckes said:
Sure, it's very elegant if you don't mind rendering out the entire contents of every .R3D file from your shoot as DPX sequences (and Scratch in not an option for many of us).

Right now I would like to know if someone has come up with a simple workflow for generating an XML pull list for Redcine from an Avid offline. For many reasons, we're still running MC 2.8, and the easiest workflow I've seen is to output a decomposed OMF2 to FCP (which requires Automatic Duck). Then output an XML to Crimson. And, finally generate an XML out of Crimson for Redcine. BTW, I haven't tested this myself, so I'm not 100% sure it will work.

Please, someone tell me there's an easier way (and don't tell me to upgrade to MC 3.0, because it's just not possible right now).

Thanks,
Paul
Click to expand...
Heres a way to cut RED files in Avid then make an image sequence:

Input Red files into Avid using Metacheater to get timecode

Edit
Delete all timewarps (else it has an error on export??)
Export OMF2

Input into FCP using Automatic Duck
Ensure sequence settings same as Red proxy
Reconnect all media, locate Red proxies

Export XML

Use Crimson to make Intermediates and a Telecine XML

In RedCine Load Intermediates, then load Telecine XML

Export from Redcine as image seq or what suits you best
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top