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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

1080P Capture Via Build 16

Steve Sherrick

Steve Sherrick

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I've experimented with capturing the 1080P output of Red Build 16 into FCP via a Kona 3 and have not had any luck. The signal comes in with a greenish/purple solarized effect. Checked it with a direct connection to an HD-SDI monitor as well with same results.

Anyone else try this? Same experience?

Also, it would be cool if the audio would travel down the HD-SDI pipe as well. That would offer a pretty cool realtime processing system (even though you have to compromise on the quality a bit). Some jobs it would be perfect for.
 
Hmmm.. Maybe that's it. I thought it was implemented in beta, but maybe it's not going to be ready until release build. For what it's worth, I tried capturing 720P and ran into problems there as well.
 
stevesherrick said:
I've experimented with capturing the 1080P output of Red Build 16 into FCP via a Kona 3 and have not had any luck. The signal comes in with a greenish/purple solarized effect. Checked it with a direct connection to an HD-SDI monitor as well with same results.

Anyone else try this? Same experience?

Also, it would be cool if the audio would travel down the HD-SDI pipe as well. That would offer a pretty cool realtime processing system (even though you have to compromise on the quality a bit). Some jobs it would be perfect for.
Click to expand...

Steve - the Kona does not YET support 23.98p (not psf) capture. It is a driver issue - they are working on it.

Also, you should know that the 1080 output from the RED is CROPPED - so on playback you are not seeing your entire frame -
 
I've gone straight into a JVC with 1080P playback. It supports true 24P. To me it looks about like 2K Medium Res in RedCine.
 
HD 1080 output

HD 1080 output

you should know that the 1080 output from the RED is CROPPED - so on playback you are not seeing your entire frame
Click to expand...

It is cropped and scaled, i.e it is first cropped to 3840 x 2160, then scaled to 1920 x 1080...
 
1080p formatting

1080p formatting

The signal comes in with a greenish/purple solarized effect. Checked it with a direct connection to an HD-SDI monitor as well with same results.
Click to expand...

Also note that the "HD-SDI" outputs are RGB dual link 4:4:4, so try the PREVIEW output - that is the more common 4:2:2 signal.
 
We also did a test today and were able to record the output on a HD-D5. Please note: not many devices out there like straight 24P, we think the Quantel EQ will be OK with it.
 
Stuart, will audio be possible to send down that pipe?
 
Yes, the preview output is 4:2:2 so the colors will be correct.
 
Okay, here's the update. The preview output does indeed work with Kona 3. I am currently capturing 1080P ProRes right now. I can almost deal with the crop and scale, it's the lack of audio that is the problem. This would force me into double system sound. Of course, this method is not meant to replace the higher quality workflows available. This is an attempt to test a quick and dirty workflow. For example. Client calls up and asks if you are available to shoot an interview. They want to use Red and they need it turned around two hours after you shoot so it can get compressed for the web. Well, if there was audio going down the HD-SDI preview Output, I could use this method to get a quick turnaround. Or I could use QT proxies. That's where I am going to do some comparisons. Quality, render times, etc.

Here are some initial thoughts.

Capture Method
Pros
1. Realtime
2. Quality actually seems pretty decent considering what needs to happen to output the signal.

Cons
1. Cropped and then scaled
2. No audio in HD-SDI signal
3. No timecode reference

Proxies

Pros
1. Import them quickly
2. Choice of sizes to work with
3. Allows you to begin editing immediately

Cons
1. Rendering involved
2. Quality can be iffy at times
3. Lack of choice for curve

Anyway, I'll have more info as I do comparisons. I know some might say this is not the right way to approach this, that capturing the preview signal is not doing the Red justice, but I think there are going to be times when I need to use this method until I am able to get another realtime system in place. And for the more normal scenarios I will continue to edit with proxies and use Crimson to help conform.

Thoughts?
 
Steve; I think you're right on. Sometimes we don't have the luxury of rendering out pristine .dpx files to go into a daVinci session. Sure would be nice to have audio and TC embedded, hope they are thinking about that, but at least we've got this for now. More than I expected considering the early discussions of dumping 1080P alltogether.
 
1080p

1080p

Agreed it would be preferable for embedded audio and timecode in the HD-SDI outputs, but while we are waiting for those, you do have line level audio coming out the 5 pin mini-XLR.
 
Stuart English said:
Agreed it would be preferable for embedded audio and timecode in the HD-SDI outputs, but while we are waiting for those, you do have line level audio coming out the 5 pin mini-XLR.
Click to expand...

True. I'll give that a whirl. Very good point Stuart.

Now if you only had a way to give me timecode, I'd really have something here. :biggrin:
 
stevesherrick said:
True. I'll give that a whirl. Very good point Stuart.

Now if you only had a way to give me timecode, I'd really have something here. :biggrin:
Click to expand...

If you're using the live recording, why do you need timecode from the camera?
 
Hdsdi 1080P

Hdsdi 1080P

I have been playing with the 1080P output. The 4:4:4 output works fine captured directly into Flame/Pablo and the Crop/Scale is excatly what is required....35mm DOF etc in a 1080P environment. The 4:2:2 out of the preview output works well too directly into Flame.

Is anyone aware of a cross convertor that will go from 1080 25P to 1080 25Psf?? I would then probably buy another Red simply to use as a playback VTR to dub to HDCamSR for the jobs that don't require the usual DPX workflow.

I suppose Redray will do it too but the timeframe may be a little too long.

Stuart, 4 channels of embedded audio would definitely be of advantage if for no other reason than to provide an easy "dailys" facility to tape or DVD. Timecode would be nice too so long as it was selectable TOD or edgecode.

All in all a very useful facility that I for one never expected...well done!

Cheers

Michael
 
You might not want your dailies cropped if you wanted to see what the full 4k 2:1 frame looks like, though.
 
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