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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

REDAlert presets in FCP Log/Transfer - Linear Light only?

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Derth Adams

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I've been experimenting with doing rough "one-light" grades in REDAlert, saving them as presets, then using them when I transcode the footage to ProRes in the FCP Log and Transfer window.

It seems like I have to use "Linear Light" as the Output LUT/Gamma in REDAlert in order for the presets to look the same in FCP's Log and Transfer. If I use REC 709, the footage looks much darker in Log and Transfer than it did in REDAlert. Has anyone else noticed this?

In REDAlert with Linear Light selected the footage starts out so high contrast and dark that I have to do a fairly extreme grade in order to get the footage to look "neutral" and suitable for an offline edit (cranking the contrast almost all the way down, etc).

With REC 709 selected as the Output LUT/Gamma, however, I can get neutral-looking footage with just a few tweaks, but then it doesn't look right in Log and Transfer.

Is there any way to get Log and Transfer to create a ProRes file that matches what I see in REDAlert with REC 709 selected? Is there some setting in FCP that I need to change?

When I make ProRes files in REDAlert itself with REC 709 selected, then import them into FCP, they look the way I intended. It'd be nice to be able to use Log and Transfer, though.
 
Derth Adams said:
Is there any way to get Log and Transfer to create a ProRes file that matches what I see in REDAlert with REC 709 selected? Is there some setting in FCP that I need to change?
Click to expand...

When running Red Alert, set you monitor up to 2.2 gamma rather than the Mac standard 1.8.
 
I am having the EXACT same issue. My Log and Transferred ProRes files are much darker than my RedAlert rendered ProRes files. I want to be able to use log and transfer for this job, as it retains the sound, where RedAlert rendering does not....

Any help would be greatly appreciated...
 
mmost said:
When running Red Alert, set you monitor up to 2.2 gamma rather than the Mac standard 1.8.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion, Mike.

I tried doing this - I created a display profile with 2.2 gamma and switched the monitor to it (which caused everything to get darker). I then graded a clip in REDAlert using an output LUT of REC 709 and saved the preset.

Then I switched the monitor back to the display profile with 1.8 gamma, opened FCP/Log and Transfer and applied the REDAlert preset to the same clip, but it still looked significantly darker and more contrasty than it did in REDAlert.

The display profile may account for some of the difference I'm seeing, but apparently not all of it.
 
Derth Adams said:
Thanks for the suggestion, Mike.

I tried doing this - I created a display profile with 2.2 gamma and switched the monitor to it (which caused everything to get darker). I then graded a clip in REDAlert using an output LUT of REC 709 and saved the preset.

Then I switched the monitor back to the display profile with 1.8 gamma, opened FCP/Log and Transfer and applied the REDAlert preset to the same clip, but it still looked significantly darker and more contrasty than it did in REDAlert.

The display profile may account for some of the difference I'm seeing, but apparently not all of it.
Click to expand...

Are you saving a new proxy from Red Alert, or are you expecting the Log and Transfer process to pick up the color correction you did, but use the camera proxy? If you're not already doing so, try saving new proxies from Red Alert and point Log and Transfer to them rather than the camera proxies.
 
mmost said:
Are you saving a new proxy from Red Alert, or are you expecting the Log and Transfer process to pick up the color correction you did, but use the camera proxy? If you're not already doing so, try saving new proxies from Red Alert and point Log and Transfer to them rather than the camera proxies.
Click to expand...

What I was doing was this:

-Open an .R3D file in REDAlert and grade it
-Save the grade as a preset using "File -> Save Preset"
-Open the same .R3D file in Log and Transfer
-Apply the REDAlert preset using the pulldown menu in the upper right corner of the left panel of the interface - every preset you specifically save and name in REDAlert shows up in this menu

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it doesn't appear to me that Log and Transfer is aware of the proxies - it wasn't possible for me to select a specific proxy using the interface.

After clicking on the "Add Folder" button in L&T, when you navigate to the level of the .RDC folder that contains a specific .R3D file and its associated proxies and .RSX file, all the files in the folder are greyed out - you have to select the entire folder. Every time I did this, Log and Transfer not only imported the folder I had pointed it to (ie, A006_C007_080508.RDC), but also all the .RDC folders in the same parent directory (A006_C001_080508.RDC - A006_C011_080508.RDC). It's aware of the Red file folder structure and seems designed to import an entire reel at once.

So as per your suggestion I tried saving out new proxies from REDAlert using the grade that I did in REC709, then replaced the camera proxies in the .RDC folder with the new ones, and opened the folder in Log and Transfer - and the image looks the same as it did with the camera proxies.

I don't think that L&T is necessarily looking at the proxies in the folder in order to perform color correction - I believe the only way to do that is through the presets that you have to save in REDAlert and manually recall in L&T.
 
Derth Adams said:
I don't think that L&T is necessarily looking at the proxies in the folder in order to perform color correction - I believe the only way to do that is through the presets that you have to save in REDAlert and manually recall in L&T.
Click to expand...

I believe that you're right and I'm wrong. The Log and Transfer approach looks at the R3d file, not at the QT wrapper. The best way to achieve what you're trying to do would likely be to either use Compressor to do the conversion to self contained QT files (it does use the proxies, and will pick up any color settings you do in Red Alert), or use the proxies directly (which I don't think you want to do).

The log and transfer approach needs to evolve a bit more before it's completely useful and/or efficient.
 
mmost. i am now doing the compressor method. only problem is....the footage that i get this way is still darker than the image look i have set in red alert. is there something i am missing?

in fact, the NEW proxies that RedAlert is generating look darker themselves (when simply viewed in QuickTime) than the image looks in RedAlert. Anything I can do?
 
skipdivils said:
mmost. i am now doing the compressor method. only problem is....the footage that i get this way is still darker than the image look i have set in red alert. is there something i am missing?

in fact, the NEW proxies that RedAlert is generating look darker themselves (when simply viewed in QuickTime) than the image looks in RedAlert. Anything I can do?
Click to expand...

You've kind of lost me, because when I do what I've suggested you do I get the correct result: set the monitor to 2.2 gamma when running Red Alert, generate new proxies, change the monitor back to Mac standard 1.8, and look at the proxies. Using this methodology, the proxies look very similar to the Red Alert display, and the pass through Compressor doesn't really change that. If you're getting different results, I really can't think of anyplace else to look.

One bit of advice, though. Red Alert is the wrong place to be attempting to create a "final" look. It's fine for making somewhat representative images, but "real" color correction is much better done in Final Cut, Color, Redcine, or a higher end color correction system after editorial is complete.
 
Have you enabled final cut studio compatibility in your quicktime preferences?
 
I am trying a test whee I color correct a clip in Red Alert, then I go to Log and Transfer in FCP and select those setting from the Red dropdown menu. It crashes before I can import to FCP as a Apple Pro Res clip, when I select the dropdown.
Here is what I am using:
OSX 10.5.2
2.5 ghz intel core 2 duo
2 gb 667 mhz ram
FCP 6.0.3

Any advie would be appeciated.
Thanks,
TJ
 
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