FCP Workflow for 7 min short

[ckilaru]

Hey Guys,

I will be shooting a 7 minute short in 2 weeks time using the RED and I want to make sure that I got the post workflow down. Can you please let me know if what I have needs to be changed? Thanks.

Format: Redcode 4K 2:1
Goal: SD DVD for festival submissions. If selected HD output.

1. Shoot using the RED.
2. Copy footage from red drive into 2 external hard drives. One for storage, other for editing.
3. Log and transfer the .R3d files to prores files for native editing using FCP 6.03.
4. Edit it down to the final cut.
5. Export XML to crimson.
6. Export XML from crimson to Redcine.
7. Render to 1080 on Redcine.
8. Export a roundrip XML file for FCP using Crimson.
9. Import roundrip XML file into FCP and apply the new sequence settings.
10. Export to COLOR from FCP.
11. Do the color grading and export to FCP from Color.
12. Now, using compressor, export to the first format (SD DVD 16:9).
13. If selected in film festivals, export to the other required formats.

If this accurate?

Thanks for any help.

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Be carefull with 3.

You must not use in and outs in the Log and Transfer window, or Crimson won't work properly (more a L&T plugin issue than a Crimson one, I believe.)

Just Log and transfert your entire clips and you will be fine, it's a bit of a waste of time and storage but not a very big deal.

Other from that, you have everything well sorted out and it should work great.

Emmanuel

 

[ckilaru]

Thanks, Emmanuel.

I was planning on logging in all the clips anyways. Space is not a problem. So why clip them? .

 

[Emery Wells]

Hey Guys,

I will be shooting a 7 minute short in 2 weeks time using the RED and I want to make sure that I got the post workflow down. Can you please let me know if what I have needs to be changed? Thanks.

Format: Redcode 4K 2:1
Goal: SD DVD for festival submissions. If selected HD output.

1. Shoot using the RED.
2. Copy footage from red drive into 2 external hard drives. One for storage, other for editing.
3. Log and transfer the .R3d files to prores files for native editing using FCP 6.03.
4. Edit it down to the final cut.
5. Export XML to crimson.
6. Export XML from crimson to Redcine.
7. Render to 1080 on Redcine.
8. Export a roundrip XML file for FCP using Crimson.
9. Import roundrip XML file into FCP and apply the new sequence settings.
10. Export to COLOR from FCP.
11. Do the color grading and export to FCP from Color.
12. Now, using compressor, export to the first format (SD DVD 16:9).
13. If selected in film festivals, export to the other required formats.

If this accurate?

Thanks for any help.

You're workflow is sound except step 3 is incorrect. If you are doing an offline/online, don't use the FC importer plugin. It accesses the native R3D file and takes *MUCH* longer to process. If you are shooting 2:1, use the proxies. You can use them natively or render to prores which is what we do.

Carry on from there.

 

[Florian Stadler]

If you want to step it up a notch render to a 10bit 2K DPX sequence in Redcine instead of 1080 ProRes. For you to be able to do that, you must add another easy step between 5 and 6:

-Export an EDL from FCP

-You then skip step 8 and 9 and go directly to Color.
-You import the EDL you generated between 5 and 6 and in the dialogue window specify the folder where your DPX sequence sits.
-Make sure that the file naming in Redcine was done correctly: Separate Folders, Filename and Filenumbers selected.
-Click ignore dpx header on every shot.
-Color correct the much more stretchable DPX sequence.
-Export to 1080Prores by sending it back to FCP at the very end, after color correction.

This way you only downconvert to your delivery medium at the very last step of your process.

 

[cckid]

Great post...neatty gritty...well summed up..is this the best apple based post production workflow outthere at the moment?

 

[ckilaru]

Thanks, Emery. I'll check it out.

 

[ckilaru]

If you want to step it up a notch render to a 10bit 2K DPX sequence in Redcine instead of 1080 ProRes. For you to be able to do that, you must add another easy step between 5 and 6:

-Export an EDL from FCP

-You then skip step 8 and 9 and go directly to Color.
-You import the EDL you generated between 5 and 6 and in the dialogue window specify the folder where your DPX sequence sits.
-Make sure that the file naming in Redcine was done correctly: Separate Folders, Filename and Filenumbers selected.
-Click ignore dpx header on every shot.
-Color correct the much more stretchable DPX sequence.
-Export to 1080Prores by sending it back to FCP at the very end, after color correction.

This way you only downconvert to your delivery medium at the very last step of your process.

Thanks, Florian. Can you explain what you mean by "export to 1080Prores by sending it to FCP"?

If we are using a 10bit DPX sequence in color, how do we export to 1080Prores? Do we do that in FCP or does color do it during rendering? I'm not that familiar working with DPX... Thanks.

 

[Cail Young]

You're workflow is sound except step 3 is incorrect. If you are doing an offline/online, don't use the FC importer plugin. It accesses the native R3D file and takes *MUCH* longer to process. If you are shooting 2:1, use the proxies. You can use them natively or render to prores which is what we do.

I'm not seeing the advantage here, especially as those of us with Leopard can't cut proxies natively. Is Compressor way faster to convert than L&T?

 

[Florian Stadler]

Color can do it during rendering. If you have gluetools you could render as a DPX sequence and use that natively in FCP.

 

[Emery Wells]

I'm not seeing the advantage here, especially as those of us with Leopard can't cut proxies natively. Is Compressor way faster to convert than L&T?

We're on Leopard and we can cut QT references just fine so Im not sure what problems Leopard is causing you but it shouldn't be.

L&T takes longer than using a compressor droplet on QT references because L&T uses a higher quality (and slower) debayer algorithm where as the QT ref files do not use a debayer algorithm at all but something much simpler and faster.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I agree with Florian, but make sure you stay with DPX all the way and then convert to preferable viewing formats when finished. Why? Because the DPX format can be used to make beautiful Cinema prints with, so if you ever consider to go on the silver screen... stay with DPX until the sweet end.

(when you make DPX in REDCine make sure it's camera RGB and REDlog in your project settings. Bring exposure down with -0.5 in color settings for each shot, if you want to preserve the highlights. For some reason there's something wrong with that, so if you don't, there's a risk for them to clip. EDIT: and then you bring them to preferred grading software)


Fredrik

 

[Cail Young]

We're on Leopard and we can cut QT references just fine so Im not sure what problems Leopard is causing you but it shouldn't be.

I should have specified -without an 8 core Mac- because with anything less FCP gives up and goes home.

EDIT: This is baffling; I'm not having any issues cutting H proxies any more. I used to. Hrm.

L&T takes longer than using a compressor droplet on QT references because L&T uses a higher quality (and slower) debayer algorithm where as the QT ref files do not use a debayer algorithm at all but something much simpler and faster.

I really should do some benchmarks here, but my understanding was that the L&T isn't a debayer either, but is roughly equivalent to the H proxy in how it works. The stairstepping I've seen would lend credence to that.

 

[ckilaru]

I agree with Florian, but make sure you stay with DPX all the way and then convert to preferable viewing formats when finished. Why? Because the DPX format can be used to make beautiful Cinema prints with, so if you ever consider to go on the silver screen... stay with DPX until the sweet end.

(when you make DPX in REDCine make sure it's camera RGB and REDlog in your project settings. Bring exposure down with -0.5 in color settings for each shot, if you want to preserve the highlights. For some reason there's something wrong with that, so if you don't, there's a risk for them to clip. EDIT: and then you bring them to preferred grading software)


Fredrik

Hey All,

So I did a test run with DPX and it came out awesome. Thanks again for the new workflow.

But there is one problem with COLOR. Sometimes about 10% of the screen n the right side is blurring out. When I send it back to FCP, it's coming out as a vertical black box... Any ideas why this is happening?

 

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Well I'm still having issues going from Color back to FCP I can tell the prores renders from color look better in quicktime than in FCP on a prores Timeline, it's like FCP's color space is not as good.

Any clue?

Emmanuel

 

[Tar]

Quick question on this workflow...(as I have a project shot and edited on proxies, and planning on using Color with DPX files)

When you bring the files (DPX) back into FCP, will FCP read these files natively? Or is this what Glue Tools is for?

Sounds like you guys are describing it possible to get away without using glue tools.

 

[Florian Stadler]

You need glue tools to work with DPX files in FCP.

You can render from Color to uncompressed Quicktime though and deal with that in FCP. Since that's a step after color correction you still get the benefit of the DPX file's flexibility in the color correction process.


If you have gluetools then you have a close to ideal workflow and stay in DPX all the way through and could do a film out from that.
Which would be complicated since you'd have to have a LUT built into your Color Correction system that imitates what the filmout process does to the color space.