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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Build 16 ISOs...

Jannard

Jannard

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Here is our take on Build 16 ISO selection.

ISO 320, 400, 500- The Gold Standards. Extremely low noise (ISO 320) to Very low noise (ISO 500). All purpose ratings for many lighting conditions. Best of all worlds.

ISO 200, 250- wicked clean images. Need more light.

ISO 100, 125, 160- wicked clean image. Image softens as ISO goes down. Need even more light. Use with care due to resolution decrease.

ISO 640, 800, 1000, - increase ISO as the light levels go down. The higher the ISO the more noise you can expect.

ISO 1280, 1600, 2000. For lowest light levels. You can expect to have to deal with noise in some way at these ISOs.

There now seems to be very small differences in latitude between all ISOs.

In all cases the noise is lower and more friendly than Build 15.

Jim
 
This is in line with how one would expect to choose an ISO rating so no surprise here. In B15, it was somewhat opposite as you tended to increase your ISO in a high contrast outdoor scene for example because you had more highlight control.

The sliding scale of where you place your 18% grey still applies to B16 yes? So you may still want to choose a high ISO in a very high contrast scene with lots of light yes?

I'b be very interested to hear what you have done to actually make these changes and how Redspace fits into this equation.
 
we - the filming creatives of the beautiful black forest in germany - announce you now definitely (and again) to the king of digital cinema.
awesome specs for this camera - congrats to the whole team.
our landscapes and places (tim burton was shooting 2 miles from my studio for "charly & chocolat- factory" because of the magic look of historic buildings) are waiting for this build. hope july is comin´soon ... and camera with 16.
 
I will be interested to see how noticable the noise is after outputting to
1080p which is where all my red work seems to go.
 
Concrete said:
How comes resolution decreases with the lower isos?

There's definetely something new going on since ISO used to be simple metadata.
Click to expand...

This is a misnomer. While it is just metadata in the camera, as soon as you touch the lens and change the amount of light hitting the sensor, it is not just metadata.

Jim
 
Red South West said:
we - the filming creatives of the beautiful black forest in germany - announce you now definitely (and again) to the king of digital cinema.
awesome specs for this camera - congrats to the whole team.
our landscapes and places (tim burton was shooting 2 miles from my studio for "charly & chocolat- factory" because of the magic look of historic buildings) are waiting for this build. hope july is comin´soon ... and camera with 16.
Click to expand...

I love the Black Forrest!
 
More importantly Jim, will the chosen ASA rating match our light meters?
 
Lower ISOs "soften" the image?

Lower ISOs "soften" the image?

Jannard said:
Snip
ISO 100, 125, 160- wicked clean image. Image softens as ISO goes down. Need even more light. Use with care due to resolution decrease.

Jim
Click to expand...

I have always avoided these low ISOs unless the lighting was relatively soft, even and flat so that protecting highlights doesn't push the meaty part of the histogram too far left. I had never imagined a significant impact on resolution. Do you think the issue is "test chart" resolution or more a perception issue? A crispier image presents to the eye as having more detail, even if it does not. (There is a lot of optical theory and human visual system research on these issues for anyone curious.)
It will be interesting to explain to old school film DPs that when shooting at lower ISOs we do not get "finer grain" and therefore more resolution.

Its not film, its not video, its RED. Repeat as needed.
 
phaz said:
I will be interested to see how noticable the noise is after outputting to
1080p which is where all my red work seems to go.
Click to expand...

Noise levels go down with scaling... you will be very happy with the noise improvement in Build 16.

Jim
 
Emery said:
More importantly Jim, will the chosen ASA rating match our light meters?
Click to expand...

Absolutely... this is one of the big advantages of Build 16. Your meter will match your monitor which will match the image when you open in RED Alert! (or REDCINE).

Jim
 
rgdfilmsRED said:
I love the Black Forrest!
Click to expand...

always welcome for a good wine (it is called "badischer wein" here) and a lunch from this area. every red owner indeed.
and the red team of course.
 
Jannard said:
This is a misnomer. While it is just metadata in the camera, as soon as you touch the lens and change the amount of light hitting the sensor, it is not just metadata.

Jim
Click to expand...

Sorry but I still didn't get your point.:clown2:

Do you mean by changing the T stops, working wide open, you change the resolving power of your optic and therefore you change the resolution...?

Or is this really realted to, and only to ISO?


Patrick
 
Tresch said:
Sorry but I still didn't get your point.:clown2:

Do you mean by changing the T stops, working wide open, you change the resolving power of your optic and therefore you change the resolution...?

Or is this really realted to, and only to ISO?

Patrick
Click to expand...

It is only about ISO. Just like getting more noise as you "stress" the RAW, you get a resolution hit as you "relax" the RAW past a certain point. Canon has the same issues with their still cameras.

Jim
 
Very good Jim,

can you put all these ISO settings on the " HOT Keys " in the ISO menu so we can map them in the user 1 , 2 or 3 for fast switching to shoot with no Worries !!!

Thanks for allowing me to give just a little bit of user requirements in REAL Shooting Gig.

Stew.
REDHKSC
HKG -CHINA

Jannard said:
Here is our take on Build 16 ISO selection.

ISO 320, 400, 500- The Gold Standards. Extremely low noise (ISO 320) to Very low noise (ISO 500). All purpose ratings for many lighting conditions. Best of all worlds.

ISO 200, 250- wicked clean images. Need more light.

ISO 100, 125, 160- wicked clean image. Image softens as ISO goes down. Need even more light. Use with care due to resolution decrease.

ISO 640, 800, 1000, - increase ISO as the light levels go down. The higher the ISO the more noise you can expect.

ISO 1280, 1600, 2000. For lowest light levels. You can expect to have to deal with noise in some way at these ISOs.

There now seems to be very small differences in latitude between all ISOs.

In all cases the noise is lower and more friendly than Build 15.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
ibloom said:
This makes sense.

Can you explain more about why the image "softens" at lower ISO's? Would you choose to do this?

IBloom
Click to expand...

We don't choose to do this... it is the nature of the sensor. A sensor has a "native" ISO. Push too far in either direction and face the consequences. It happens in steps. ISO 2000 is noisier than ISO 1000. And ISO 125 is softer than ISO 250.

Jim
 
Does changing the ISO in camera still strictly a meta data with absolutely no permanent changing?

For instance: bright sunny day, I've forgotten my NDs and I'm closed all the way down and the sky is over 108 IRE (purple on the false color), if I change the ISO from 320 down to say, 100, will that cause any extra data to be recorded (and thus, not clipped) than if I had stayed at 320?

Another scenario: street corner at night, we got a 2.5k when we should have gotten a 4k. We're shooting at 320iso with the lens WFO. If I change to 1000iso so I can see what I am doing, will that introduce more noise than if I had shot at 320 and bumped in post?
 
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