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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Prepare...

free ?
 
Jannard said:
How much? :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

I would pay $1000 for a "Red Digital Lab" software app. All joking aside here. Let's say of the thousands of people/companies that would need this, 1000 buy it. That's $1,000,000. That could go a long way to doing the following:

1. Assign a dedicated team on this app.
2. Assure stability and proper support
3. Provide thorough documentation and video tutorials
4. R&D to make it as efficient and feature rich as possible.

I know the thinking is to make it easy for all of the post houses to have a way of dealing with the footage, but I'd rather pay the money and get a kick ass program. You guys are up to your eyeballs with stuff to do. If charging for Redcine (or another app) allows you to expand staff and dedicate resources to its development, please do it. Everyone wants stuff for free these days. Sometimes you have to draw the line.

Just my .02
 
Jannard said:
Alpha Build 16 only works with RED Alert! Release Build 16 will work with REDCINE and then we start working on the SDK so others can join in. That has always been the plan.

Jim
Click to expand...

Does that mean we folk stuck in the PC world are left out of the Build 16 BETA goodness?

I am most emphatically NOT suggesting you hold up the beta so that we don't feel left out, I just want to know if I should curb my enthusiasm for the Beta Build16 and hold it for the Release Build16?
 
For every 1 person that buys RedCinePro, 100 people pirate it. Then after only 10 copies get sold we get to deal with one copy per person and dongle protection. The red tools work for me and I run them on 10 machines. It makes me wonder if y'all aren't even trying.
 
stevesherrick said:
1. Assign a dedicated team on this app.
2. Assure stability and proper support
3. Provide thorough documentation and video tutorials
4. R&D to make it as efficient and feature rich as possible.

... but I'd rather pay the money and get a kick ass program.
Click to expand...

I think they are allready doing their best and as Deanan said they have to do it properly : first build16, then redcine then SDK. You can't kick asses with more money...

Hope that the great RED team didn't take your statement personally.

My 2 cents.

Pat
 
reality said:
For every 1 person that buys RedCinePro, 100 people pirate it. Then after only 10 copies get sold we get to deal with one copy per person and dongle protection. The red tools work for me and I run them on 10 machines. It makes me wonder if y'all aren't even trying.
Click to expand...

We live in a world with a lot of dishonest people. Software companies have had to fight back against those who are acquiring their software illegally. If Red were to charge for a Redcine Pro, they would have to take some of these same steps and who could blame them? I am okay with adhering to whatever copy protection method they might come up with.

Are you saying there are no bugs and you are happy with rendering times? I think the apps are good considering they are beta, but they are not bug free and the rendering times are steep unless you have a lot of firepower to throw at it. Having said that, I am happy we have something to work with while they continue to improve them and bring them to release builds. If they are able to make these apps solid and there is no charge, that's even better. But my point is, i'd rather pay if it means we get better apps with lots of support.
 
Jannard said:
Alpha Build 16 only works with RED Alert! Release Build 16 will work with REDCINE and then we start working on the SDK so others can join in. That has always been the plan.

Jim
Click to expand...

OK, reverse (and more important) question: Will the footage acquired with build 15 work on RedCine 16 and the SDK?
 
Jannard said:
How much? :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

A working RedCine would definitely propagate the use of RED a lot...

The value goes both ways. Currently, having to deal with 2-3 generations of DPXs is killing off a lot of the market, and please don't say "Scratch" (even though I may go there". People aren't killing off their Smoke suites anytime soon.

We need a reliable development tool with good renderengine even with the SDK out, to make RED fit to peoples needs.

Yes, I would pay for it, but this is software for many more than the RED owners.

I don't know how many of my customers actually bought gluetools/crimson, but I certainly have adviced each and everyone to do so.

As color is a buggy beast, it's not a real option for high invoice work. It's too slow and buggy by far, and sorta explodes in your face when you least need it, so RED needs tools that integrates better.

I don't say "There isn't workflows", there are, BUT

There are good "Videoworkflows" and there is a good highend workflow (I guess...) Scratch.

There isn't currently a non-geeky way to make RED fit smoothly into established workflows, and it is putting customers off. They're happy to pay for a DIT on set that prepares offlines and organizes the projects. They do NOT want another day in post for making projects ready for online.

So what would I pay to make this work?
What is needed to be done for RED to unlock more markeds? :)

A working REdCine would with edl in/out and colorinfo embedded in the xmls for renders in Redline, that doesn't crash all the time and doesn't die when you mix formats in the project, would be an essential step to solve the current worst problems.

As far as I understood, I here essentialy have described RedCine as I originally understoodthat it would be, not a "pro" app. Just a proper bridging app.

G
 
All sounds good to me. The thing eveyone is forgetting here is that with the SDK release all these "rock solid platform" issues will be taken up by deidcated software companies (who aren't distracted by making cameras...).

It's not just RED but all the other RAW shooting cameras out there that will see RAW supporting digital lab programs that support all the flavours (Phantom. SI2K etc). At that point post once again becomes part of the post houses remit (who will need to buy in or lose out on the work). That leaves Red shooters to do what they are good at and not have to spend days holding the hands of editors (My palms are getting sweaty...)

My only request at the moment is that (if not already) the Amazing Mr Bloom is allowed to be part of the Redcine/B16 alpha/beta so that Crimson will work right out the gate....Pretty please.

Cheers
Jeff Brown
RED708
 
Deanan said:
You can't do the massive changes we've done in build 16 and support 4+ apps in parallel (RC, RA, QT, RL plus all the tools you don't see).
Click to expand...
makes perfect sense.
 
Poi Boy said:
As far as redcine goes, I would much prefer to pay for the software and have it work reliably; I'm sure it will in time.
-A
Click to expand...
Jannard said:
How much? :-)

Jim
Click to expand...

continuing reds rebel "take the market with quality and disruptive pricing" approach:

For the 4K (and later) 5K folks you can easily charge
~ 5000 with a good color correction, sound and EDL
~ 9000 with Masks and Tracker added
and would once more do the "impossible" .

Besides red customers any pro post studio offering red services would be pretty interested and usually 1 cam feeds 5 post studios. For the 3K crowd you might want to shave off an 0 somewhere in the price.

The market is totally there. So far "Digital Intermediate" was an synonym for very few copies, very high prices, limited functionality. Slightly remembers me of the top-class cinema camera market before a certain group of individuals decided to change this... :)
 
As many of you know, I've been pretty quiet lately, but I've been here. I think build 16 is wonderful, and as painful as it can sometimes be, I believe image quality should be first and foremost on RED's minds.

Some had posted that post was equal to or more important than the current image upgrades. From the customers/vendor's viewpoint, I would agree with this. Why? Cause we can currently sell the camera and it's image, but we cannot very successfully sell the camera with it's post.

Jim you commented that it's human nature to get one thing, and then want another. I think in this case, many owner/operators are looking at the list they need to be in business. Support across a post workflow is major to the useability of a camera. (About now someone jumps on me saying "FCP and Scratch work perfectly! Yes, I know, but the world is a little bigger than that).

But here's the trick.. And this is the reason for my silence. RED CANNOT PROCEED IN THE ORDER WE MAY WANT THEM TOO.

If they chase us around trying to make the camera "business ready" but do things out of order to make that happen, then in reality, the camera itself will develop far slower than it has. Someone on here said "we have to start from the top down"

It starts with the image, and then works from there. While painful, RED is doing things in the right order, and once they are through, they will really be through. In a sense, thank God they did not do things in the order we wanted them too. The camera development could have suffered for years, or more.

It's easy to see build 16 is close to done. Then the SDK is right behind it. What's going to matter is that this build has the same ability to be accessed and worked with as the current builds. I am guessing the SDK will allow far MORE access as companies will be able to make better use of Metadata, and that's huge.

The wait is tough, that I grant you, but I am confident RED is doing this in the right order. So just hang on a little longer.

Jay
 
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