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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

On Set HD Backup Recommendations

Sam Roberts

Sam Roberts

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Now that I'm on the list it's time to start thinking about what I will need for on set backup. Most of the time I'll use the cards but for formal sit down interviews it will have to be the Drive. Either way I'll be swapping cards in and out and also reusing the drive after it's been copied. I can easily shoot 4 to 6 hours of stuff in a day.

I have a Mac Book Pro so I'd appreciate some recommendations on back up hard drives. It has to be small and light..no big arrays as we need to travel light. Around 300GB and as rugged as possible. Firewire 800 rather than USB. Are the LaCie's any good?

http://www.lacie.com/ca/products/product.htm?pid=10821
 
We use the LaCie Rugged 320GB "All Terrain hard drive" on set and no problems so far. LaCies have a bad rep but I have a 250GB drive on my desk that's three and a half years old, have been lugged all around Finland in not-always-so-safe bags, and it's still working like it's brand new. I also have two 500GB drives and no failures and no problems.
 
We have 5 lacie drives and 2 of them crapped out. not a good track record
for us. I opened one and found maxtor drives, like with any HD, you takes your chances.

take a look at this. http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fusionf2.html

have not used it but is getting good reviews.
 
LaCie has a bad rep for their Desktop drives (d2 etc). I had a few and had problems - especially with burned interfaces, not with the drives themselves (the data was not affected).

I believe the rugged LaCie drive is ok and sturdy. Phaz, did you have problems with desktop lacies or with the rugged version?
 
As for workflow, here's what I'm thinking:

- buy one Nexto device - but I don't know if I should buy the Nexto 2523 (http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000180-1179840782) which has Firewire connectivity or the newer Nexto 2700 (http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=8000070B-1208441113) which has an eSATA interface.

So, once a card is full, I will download it to the Nexto device first. I will also make a second back-up, through a different method. Either download the card through the Lexar FW800 CF reader (http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80000267-1186149598) to an eSATA mobile external drive, or through the Delkin adapter (http://www.delkin.com/products/adapters/expresscard34/) to an external firewire drive like the LaCie rugged unit. Again, I'm not sure which is better in terms of speed/reliability. Will do tests when I get my RED, but if someone else already did that, they are most welcomed to shed some light.

Back from the field, you download the two back-ups to two different desktop drives.

It's time consuming to do two back-ups through two different methods but you decrease the odds of losing data. It's worth the trouble.
 
eastco said:
LaCie has a bad rep for their Desktop drives (d2 etc). I had a few and had problems - especially with burned interfaces, not with the drives themselves (the data was not affected).

I believe the rugged LaCie drive is ok and sturdy. Phaz, did you have problems with desktop lacies or with the rugged version?
Click to expand...

it was the desktop D2's that bit us.
 
I recommend to buy LaCie Rugged Hard Disk 200GB 7200 rpm with firewire 400/800.

If you have laptop with firewire 800 that would be the fastest way to backup !


Also it is scratch-protected aluminum shell & shock-resistant rubber bumper.
 
Mark,

I was leaning towards the F2 as well. However I'm still thinking about it.

Like I said, one back-up would be to a Nexto. The second back-up on set should go to a drive, through the laptop. Now, to offload the cards through the laptop to a hard-drive, that means you have to occupy 2 of your outputs on it. That means the speed of the data transfer will be bottlenecked by the slowest interface. Either you offload the cards through the eSATA port (through the Delkin adapter) and then to a Firewire 800 mobile drive, or offload the cards through the Lexar Firewire 800 reader to a eSATA drive like the F2. In BOTH cases the speed will be limited by the FW800 port.

In that case, why use the F2 on the set? (the overall speed of download won't be higher, so the eSATA connectivity is not such a major advantage anymore). It makes more sense to use a LaCie Rugged Hard Disk 200GB 7200 when doing back-ups - it seems more rugged, smaller, and much cheaper.

Again, this is only for on-set back-ups. One can use the F2 in a controlled situation, but the capacity is not that great - although RAID is great and the unit seems amazing.

PS By the way, how about the two simulatenous LCDs idea? Any progress?
 
RED Hard Drive Archiving/Backups

RED Hard Drive Archiving/Backups

We have been using these Guardian MAXimus drives (from the link above) for a month now. They are rock solid. We have bought already built ones, and bought empty cases and drives. We are currently using them for Archiving both RED & P2.

Rob Beadle
Owner/Editor
Copper Post Digital

(our RED vendor, HDArizona - RED#1228)
 
Hard to tell from the picture...are they heavy? Did you get some kind of special case to carry them around? Will they take a few bumps and knocks now and then?
 
Sam Roberts said:
Hard to tell from the picture...are they heavy? Did you get some kind of special case to carry them around? Will they take a few bumps and knocks now and then?
Click to expand...

They weigh just under 6lbs. We transport them in the laptop bag, but you could get a small Pelican type case for it and never have to worry. They don't have any sort of shock mounting, so I wouldn't want to knock them any harder than the spec. sheet for the drives in it says I can. Having said that, if it's tipped over while powered off, or gets dropped an inch, I don't flinch.

This link has more detailed info: http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer Technology/GM8U2KIT0GB/

It should also be said that having two single disk enclosures has it's advantages over one dual disk enclosure. For example you can take one to lunch with you and not worry about how good your firewatch is, but if you should get mugged at lunch, there is still the drive on set (okay so this is an extreme example, but still). It also means that you need the extra cables and power adapters (if not using bus powered drives). For single drive enclosures I like WiebeTech's ToughTech series (http://www.wiebetech.com/products/toughtech.php), which do have shock mounts, and no fans (keeps sound happy).

Many options to choose from, all good.
 
Mark is right, the sonnet is hands down an solid unit...so far that is. I have been downloading cards all day today and with 3 minutes average downloading 8gb card, all about the sata+bus powered combo.

I have worked with the Glyph PortaGig drives recently as well and they performed really well for firewire 800 and for whats its worth I hear there customer support is grade A, apparently they will turn around overnight anywhere in the world a damaged drive and offer a data recovery service for free under the 2 year warranty...correct me if I am wrong.

Still waiting for a 3rd party RED automated download station...who is working on that?
 
I wanted to add a plus and minus to the f2 sonnet...its a plus to mirror the drives for redundancy but the advantage to have two separate drive copies (ie 2 lacie rugeds) is that if in the worse case situation data is lost on one drive, you always know its safe on another where as with the sonnet f2 in mirror mode you will mirror one's mistakes.

Oh and before you leave the set, off-load everything to a client drive in case you do get mugged on the way home, funny I actually thought the same thing. ;)
 
Hi Haskell,

3 minutes average downloading 8gb card is really good. So you have the F2 on the eSATA port, but how are you downloading the CF cards themselves? Lexar FW800 reader?

And one more question - is the F2 easy to carry around, small enough to not be a nuisance on the set and also reasonably protected from normal shocks on set? I'm debating between the F2 and the Lacie rugged drives. It's not a question of saving money - it's about having two backups on two Lacies Rugged for supplemental protection, and also I feel like the Lacie rugged drive is smaller, easier to handle on set and also more shock resistant. But I never handled a F2 so far, so that's why I'm asking.

Thanks!
 
I would be very careful on who's drive enclosures i chose.
Very few venders/ companies make their own. (READ:have engineer on staff)

The Maximus although i have not used it, is made by Newer Technologies which is a large OEM vendor that sells to many companies getting great reviews..........for their consumer products...(hint..hint)

It seem's like a good option/cost effective and all but it is not designed for video. READ it is not designed to keep sustained transfer rates that are demanded for video work.

I understand you might just be doing data management but versatility and being prepared is a #1 asset in our business. Also I like able to call and speak to an engineer is the sh*t hits the fan and im on set.

So in my opinion you have 2 options:

1: Sonnet- F2 Bus Powered eSata drive.
The Sonnet F2 looks amazing and a great concept.
Bus powered through a firewire port (power only) and a fast
eSata connections. Built for the industry and not just to be sitting
on desk or rack like MANY others. Also great company with
good service. Would be on the top of my list, if i knew i would not have constant access to power.

2: Caldigit FirewireVR
Alas only Firewire 800/400. But with a Real Hardware raid card
able to do Raid 0 and Raid 1, (fast/mirror). I have rarely meet anyone
with such a passion for storage and making bullet proof hardware then
these guys. Hot swappable trays, well thought out cooling design with
FAN.

NOTE* Caldigit FirewireVR are the ONLY drives that are on the market that let you daisy chain in the FW bus and not loss drive performance.
All other firewire drives will loss performace for every drive added to the BUS.


These are the only options that i see as being viable at the moment.
Although you can make your own MAXimus drive for less.
What happens when it fails on a high profile client?
Are you an engineer? ?
Do you guarantee your work, in building Raids ?

Although I have worked as a IT pro in a past life, i would NEVER bring a
home-built storage solution to a professional set. Its just one more point of failure that can occur with me being responsible. Does this make sense???.....finger pointing .

There is a combination of (drives/fans/cooling/RPM/Cache) that goes into consideration when making a device like this, once you begin to introduce
more variable you increase the potential for a point of failure. Let a real engineer figure it out for you, your data deserves it, even more a client.


Final note:

Please dont use G-Raids, there is a misconception in production at the moment... at least in LA, that they should be using G-Raids.
G-technologies although a good marketing company does not design their own enclosures. But more importantly they are not MIRRORED !!?!?!?!
Why on earth would you bring a Stripped RAID 0 on set to do data back ups?
you are just giving yourself not 1 but 2 potential points of failure.
Not to mention the lack of quality in their hardware.

Please keep this in mind:
* Raid 1 - mirrored storage, minimum redundancy you can have on set.
* Hardware Raid - just google it, you'll agree.
* Vendors that design for OUR industry.
* Ask, "who designed your enclosure?" when buying.


Ernesto Lomeli
---------------------------------
Director of Photography
RED Camera Owner/ Operator
---------------------------------
 
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