Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

What is Build 16?

jbeale said:
On a DSLR, you get lower noise by using a lower ISO setting... I'd assumed there wasn't room to change that on Red due to sensor saturation limiting max effective exposure. But if they can usefully lower their analog gain, they would have lower noise and also lower ISO rating. This is, of course entirely speculation.
Click to expand...

I hope you're wrong. The camera is already slow as it is. Less noise should mean a faster ISO rating. I really hope they don't lessen the analogue gain.
 
You might be turning me into a fanboy.
 
Looking forward to it.

I can't believe this thread doesn't yet have one, frantic, banal question... or demand.

That's cause for celebration in itself, but give it time I guess.

(Resident cynic :shiftyph34r: )
 
I would guess that the camera ISO would go up. Probably to 500 or 640 ASA.
It needs to do this to allow the camera to roll highlights off more smoothly.
It's interesting that Jim did not say there would be more dynamic range. But then we know the sensor has 66db or 11+1/3 stops, we just have come to the conclusion that for most uses 9 is what's useable. But if the noise is one stop better in the shadows that means we can rate the camera one stop faster and achieve one more stop of DR. Or even better if a proper Log curve could be applied before compression you could possibly even get the entire 11+1/3 stops Graeme has measured previously.
Here's to being optimistic :innocent:
 
Evin Grant said:
I would guess that the camera ISO would go up. Probably to 500 or 640 ASA.
It needs to do this to allow the camera to roll highlights off more smoothly.
It's interesting that Jim did not say there would be more dynamic range. But then we know the sensor has 66db or 11+1/3 stops, we just have come to the conclusion that for most uses 9 is what's useable. But if the noise is one stop better in the shadows that means we can rate the camera one stop faster and achieve one more stop of DR. Or even better if a proper Log curve could be applied before compression you could possibly even get the entire 11+1/3 stops Graeme has measured previously.
Here's to being optimistic :innocent:
Click to expand...

This would be my guess too, Evin. Jim's hint that ASA raiting has increased suggests that there is some improvement in noise filtering applied, which would result in improved DR.

How exciting!
 
I'm sure we get a bit more DR in built 16.

How much?

We'll see very soon.

Supposed to be that now Cannes show is heating up all the thing.
 
more ISO with less noise will be a great notice!! If you can regulate the voltage in your sensor with this precission this is really a unique camera.
but, ¿we can expect more FPS in 4K?
¿is truth we can program a speed ramp? in this case this build allow to correct exposure at same time it corrects fps?
I really wish this interactive forum with real builders never end. Congratulations to everybody in red for hear the workers before improve your builds.

excuse my english again an again!!
 
Evin Grant said:
I would guess that the camera ISO would go up. Probably to 500 or 640 ASA.
It needs to do this to allow the camera to roll highlights off more smoothly.
It's interesting that Jim did not say there would be more dynamic range. But then we know the sensor has 66db or 11+1/3 stops, we just have come to the conclusion that for most uses 9 is what's useable. But if the noise is one stop better in the shadows that means we can rate the camera one stop faster and achieve one more stop of DR. Or even better if a proper Log curve could be applied before compression you could possibly even get the entire 11+1/3 stops Graeme has measured previously.
Here's to being optimistic :innocent:
Click to expand...

As I've said elsewhere, we shot our feature with Build 15, with the current DR - but we've found that with careful, thorough, clever grading, we can get 11 stops. Noise in the darkest scenes does need some clever processing. But we're happy - and that's for film-out. Whatever Build 16 does to improve on 15 can only be good news.
 
If only ver 16 will support exposure bracketing, via different shutter speeds.
Different for frames 1,3,5,7 etc and different for 2,4,6,8. We could get HDR moving images.

After Effect already supports HDR manipulation for movies. Yes, I have heard argument that alternating shutter speed for every second frame will introduce strobeing effect. NOT TRUE!

After shooting at say 60fps and combining two frames with different shutter speeds in to one in AE using motion transforms, we will get one single frame for 30 fps output with 3-4 stops extra DR
We will not watch 60 fps alternating but 30 frame (two adjacent frame merged)

It is so easy to implement, just have two (or even 3) entries in the shutter speed menu for shutter speed instead of one speed for shutter at this moment.
Different for even frames and different for odd frames.
In case of 3 point bracketing like in all DLSR (+2 stops, zero, -2stops) we should have ability to enter different value for the shutter speed for firs second and third starting frame.

RED will be the first moving pictures camera in the world supporting HDR filming with this feature.
 
Andrew said:
If only ver 16 will support exposure bracketing, via different shutter speeds.
Different for frames 1,3,5,7 etc and different for 2,4,6,8. We could get HDR moving images.

After Effect already supports HDR manipulation for movies. Yes, I have heard argument that alternating shutter speed for every second frame will introduce strobeing effect. NOT TRUE!

After shooting at say 60fps and combining two frames with different shutter speeds in to one in AE using motion transforms, we will get one single frame for 30 fps output with 3-4 stops extra DR
We will not watch 60 fps alternating but 30 frame (two adjacent frame merged)

It is so easy to implement, just have two (or even 3) entries in the shutter speed menu for shutter speed instead of one speed for shutter at this moment.
Different for even frames and different for odd frames.
In case of 3 point bracketing like in all DLSR (+2 stops, zero, -2stops) we should have ability to enter different value for the shutter speed for firs second and third starting frame.

RED will be the first moving pictures camera in the world supporting HDR filming with this feature.
Click to expand...

I shot some motion picture HDR. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. One instance when it doesn't work is with some fast movement because motion blur for highlight is smaller than motion blur for shadows and they are also offset :bleh:
You can apply some timing strategies by taking tripplets, like -4AV, 0AV, -4AV and apply a merge of field 1 and 3 before expanding DR with field 2. But, it will never be as clean as proper single frame scan.

A better solution is to use two cameras and a half-mirror. One camera with ND, both operating at the same shutter speed.
 
Did you try AE motion transforms?
It combines two pictures pixel by pixel in to the one picture.
It is also used for adjusting motion blur.
Works great to match the blur on different shutter speeds.
 
I just hope once Build 16 is out they will have more time in building cameras. :wink: Its interesting reading all these posts, although it would be nicer to have a camera to experiment what you are saying. I guess once I get it, it'll have build 17-18? with lots of improvements though.

Still patiently waiting...:calm:
 
I could be wrong but while red is only handful of people compared to other companies, I doubt it's a one man band. Meaning the programmers are not the people who put together the camera, they just know how to program. There's nothing they can do to speed things up or slow things down. But the people who have their fingers in multiple pies such as Jarred and Jim etc, I'm sure are putting full effort into getting those cameras out. I highly doubt everyone who comes into work sits down at their desk and ponders: "So do I program or put together a camera today? ..."

I'm glad to hear that the development of this section of the camera has not been delayed due to the physical shipping of cameras. If that were the case then it really would be a rinky dink operation and I would be a bit scared. A person can be well rounded and know a lot, but not be the expert in all those areas. If the same guy was taking my order, who put the camera together, who programmed the firmware who designed the lenses who balanced the budget were the only people there - how could everything be of the up most quality? I'm by no means ranting, it's just interesting how we think that coming out with a new firmware means time otherwise could have been spent on getting those cameras out.

Looking forward to seeing what this new build has to offer. :eek:)
 
Slinnn said:
Sounds great.

So what about RedCine ? Will there be a new version with build 16 ?
And QT support for 16/9 ?
Click to expand...

I believe they are making changes to the apps to accommodate changes in this firmware build.

I am hopeful that 16:9 quicktime/FCP support will be a reality once this new build rolls out. I would assume in addition to new versions of REDCINE and RED Alert, we will see new versions of Redcode plugin and log and transfer utility.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top