Mac formatted FAT32 not readable on PC?

[Richard Bradbury]

I've done a whole load of jobs on Red now as DIT, some of which have been cut in Final Cut and some in Avid. I have generally been using Lacie ruggedised 120GB hard drives for copying daily rushes to (as well as making backups elsewhere).

I have had problems in the past (doing P2 work) with post houses running Avid on PC not being able to read mac formatted drives (HFS), so I took the decision with Red from the beginning to format all drives as FAT32 on my MacBook Pro before copying files. After all this is what Red drives are formatted as, so there isn't a problem with the 4GB filesize limit.

However I've had a couple of problems with post houses not being able to read the FAT32 formatted drives on their PC Avids. Ironically one of them could have read HFS drives since they were running MacDrive.

Has anyone else had this problem? Is it to do with the way my MBP writes the FAT32 format? Can anything be done? What drive format are other DITs using for Red rushes?

 

[Cail Young]

FAT32 should be fine; however you need to make sure you're using the Erase tab in Disk Utility not the Partition tab - FAT32 drives need a Master Boot Record, not the other one that HFS sets up, and I'm not sure if using Partition to change it over does it properly. I do know Erase works.
Alternately, if you don't mind the performance hit, you can install MacFUSE and NTFS-3G and make NTFS drives. It's a fair bit slower writing (read: much slower) but lets you make files over 2GB just fine.

 

[Richard Bradbury]

I am using the erase tab in disk utility. I'm going to do a bit of testing when I get time and see what I come up with.

I don't think NTFS is the way to go since Red drives are FAT32 anyway.

 

[Cail Young]

I don't think NTFS is the way to go since Red drives are FAT32 anyway.

I mention it because if you're transcoding to Quicktimes it's possible to end up with files over 4GB.

 

[Vincent S]

I think it's a issue with the Mac formatting the drive. Try formatting it as FAT32 from a PC.

 

[Richard Bradbury]

I mention it because if you're transcoding to Quicktimes it's possible to end up with files over 4GB.

I take your point. All I'm using the drives for is copying .r3d files onto, then the client copies these onto whatever server is being used for editorial and the lacie drives become a sort of archive master. They are never written to again.

I'm going to test the pc formatted FAT32, but if it's true that it's a problem with how the mac is doing the formatting and I have to use a pc to format drives then that is very dull indeed.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

If you format the drive from the PC, you will be limited to 32GB per partition. If formatting from the Mac is giving problems, there could be something wrong with the partition map or even the drive itself.

I would repartition the drive and then reformat to see if that clears up. With Avid workstations, you also have to take into consideration what operating system they maybe running on them. Some older versions of windows simply won't read FAT32 volumes larger than a certain size. For example, I think Win2K SP1 and earlier may still be limited to simply not seeing anything larger than 32GB in a FAT32 partition. Even the latest XP and Vista incarnations still won't allow formatting larger than 32GB for FAT32 (but Mac will).

...Probably need more information to diagnose the problem(s).

 

[Alex Carr]

Honestly, Workstations without MacDrive are rarely heard of these days... I wouldn't trust the Mac's formatting of NTFS and FAT32, just as I wouldn't trust a PC to format a HFS+. Always format from Destination of Files... I have encountered problems formatting drives on Leopard, Samsung drives and few other brands refuse to be partitioned. FYI!!!!

The Partition map refers to how the drive will boot, There is Guided Partition, Master Boot record, and Apple Partition map. Since the Archive drive will never boot an operating system it is irrelevant how the Partition map is formatted, By default it is MBR for PC's...

Here is your answer... Gparted Live CD
Its a disc that boots up and lets you format a drive to whatever you need... HFS+, NTFS, FAT32... I use this disc frequently for erasing drives... AND changing partition tables and sizes

 

[Paul Leeming]

If you format the drive from the PC, you will be limited to 32GB per partition. If formatting from the Mac is giving problems, there could be something wrong with the partition map or even the drive itself.

Actually there is a way to format above 32GB partitions on a PC (which I use on our LaCie 320GB Little Big Disk):

Fat32format

This little piece of free software allows you to create FAT32 partitions up to 2TB in size. More info on the site about why this works (and Red obviously uses something similar to format the RedDrive in camera).

HTH

Paul

 

[Dave French]

I've run into this before. A drive formatted FAT32 on Tiger would mount fine on a PC but if it was formatted FAT32 on Leopard it wouldn't mount on the PC.

Are you using Leopard?

Dave

 

[Barry Green]

Actually there is a way to format above 32GB partitions on a PC

Yeah, the 32GB limitation is an artificial limitation that Windows' own format utility imposes. I've used the free program "Swiss Knife" to format entire hard drives as FAT32 on a Windows system.

 

[Richard Bradbury]

Yes, I'm running Leopard (10.5.2). It's not a problem with an individual drive, as it's happened to several of the same drives (Lacie 120GB Ruggedised Triple Interface).

It's true that a lot of Avid workstations are running MacDrive, but not all in my experience. There's always a way round it in each case but what I'm trying to find is a solution that will suit all occasions. Maybe it just doesn't exist and it's a question of communicating with post houses and doing a test. But sometimes on short jobs this just isn't possible...

 

[Randall Nott]

Windows 98 will format FAT32 drives up to 127.5GB. Windows 2000 and above can only format FAT32 up to 32GB but can mount FAT32 drives up to 127.5. The FAT32 utilities for making the drive larger do so by pushing the cluster size past the 32 bytes per sector Windows made standard for 2000 and beyond. So it may just be that mac is formatting FAT32 higher than 64 bytes per sector, which is the limit a pc will mount without an external utility.
At 512 bytes per sector you reach the 2TB size, but a pc can't mount it.

So limit your cluster size to 64 and your partition size to 127.5 and you should be compatible for both platforms.

 

[Paul Leeming]

Windows 2000 and above [....] can mount FAT32 drives up to 127.5.

This is incorrect info sorry. I'm looking at my 320GB LaCie HDD right now which is formatted to FAT32 (actually around 300GB when formatted thanks to dodgy marketing, but whatever). You can also read the RedDrive no problem either and it's the same size.

Thanks for the Swiss Knife info Barry, for those looking for it here's the link.

HTH

Paul

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, the 32GB limitation is an artificial limitation that Windows' own format utility imposes. I've used the free program "Swiss Knife" to format entire hard drives as FAT32 on a Windows system.

...I know I didn't bring up other utilities or formatting methods in my post in regards to the artificial 32GB limit Windows imposes. FWIW, the 32GB limit can also be circumvented with the command line format utility as well, if you give the utility specific format specs that extend beyond 32GB.

For those having problems with drives formatted in Leopard, that's really odd. I use leopard-formatted HDDs with Windows boxes on a daily basis -- all XP SP2 and newer, if that makes a difference.

 

[Randall Nott]

This is incorrect info sorry.

Sorry, Paul, that should have said "safely" mount. As I stated, the upper limit for formatting by Microsoft's specs is 2TB.

Since the original thread here was concerned with cross-platform compatibiity, I was stating the limits originally imposed by Microsoft which might conflict with the settings allowed by a Mac.

FWIW, the 32GB limit can also be circumvented with the command line format utility as well, if you give the utility specific format specs that extend beyond 32GB.

Sorry, Jeff, while the format command line uitility allows you to enter those specs, if you exceed the 32GB limit it will go all the way through the format process and fail at the end with a volume size error. At least under Windows 2000 and XP Those specs will allow you to format up to 127.5GB under Windows 98. The 127.5 upper limit is imposed by '98's 16-bit SCANDISK utility, not FAT32 itself. Therefore the maximum size supported natively by Windows variants is 127.5GB. Third party utilities such as Swiss Army Knife and LaCie's formatting utility allow you to bypass Microsoft's limitations.

But the original question here was not how to maxiimize the FAT32 partitioning (though it's nice to know), but how come someone can't read the FAT32 drive as formatted by a Mac. If all you know is that the other party has a pc, these were the limits originally imposed by Microsoft.

I've also heard that FAT32 formatting under the Mac has an upper limit of 8TB. Maybe someone else can confirm and explain how.

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Sorry, Jeff, while the format command line uitility allows you to enter those specs, if you exceed the 32GB limit it will go all the way through the format process and fail at the end with a volume size error.

You tell it to ignore the error and it will complete the format. No special software required. The 127.5GB limit that is imposed by previous versions of windows and other utilities is also an artificial limit.

IMO, FAT32 is a terrible data format, but it's what we have to work with for cross-platform media. Without resorting to third-party tools.

But the original question here was not how to maxiimize the FAT32 partitioning (though it's nice to know), but how come someone can't read the FAT32 drive as formatted by a Mac. If all you know is that the other party has a pc, these were the limits originally imposed by Microsoft.

The problem here is that we don't know enough specifics about the original poster's problem. I have had drives not mount that were formatted under OSX or Windows, either way. Usually it was a bad partition map or something of that nature. But all we're really doing is speculating on the nature of the problem until we know more. It could even be an incompatibility between USB or firewire host and device chipsets -- had that before too, not fun.

 

[Randall Nott]

You tell it to ignore the error and it will complete the format.

Cool! I'll have to try that.
It would be nice if Microsoft would actually document that.

But all we're really doing is speculating on the nature of the problem until we know more.

If only the oriiginal posters were as persistent as those of us trying to sort out the minutiae.

 

[Richard Bradbury]

I'm very grateful for all the advice given so far, and I'm reading it keenly.

I will tell you all I can about the original problem, at the risk of repeating myself:

For a recent short film I took three 120GB Lacie Rugged Triple Interface drives and formatted them FAT32 on a MacBook Pro running 10.5.2 using the Erase option in Disk Utility. This was one drive for each day's rushes, and I chose FAT32 because I knew they were going to be accessed by a Windows box running Avid at a post house. The day after wrap I got a call saying that the post house weren't able to mount the drives. Anything more about their system I don't know. The problem was circumvented by them copying the r3d files onto their server using a mac (which could mount the drives).

No big deal, of course there's always a way, but I wondered if anyone else had encountered this problem, and if there's a way of formatting a drive for reliable cross-platform compatibility. I will be doing some proper testing of this as soon as I get a chance.

 

[Dan McCain]

I was on a set today and someone was telling me that the red files had to be backed up to fat32 or you could have corruption when copying from fat32 to mac HFS. I have always copied p2 and others to the mac formatted drives never with any issues. Is there any truth to this theory?