Color Difference between Camera Video Tap & Proxy File

[Chris Armstrong]

I've noticed that the colors coming out of the 720 or SDI video taps to a broadcast monitor (Sony) doesn't look like the proxies played out via a kona onto the same broadcast monitor.

Footage played off the hard drive via the taps to the monitor looks very warm, saturated. The same proxy clip (played out via a kona) on the same broadcast monitor has a very cool, low saturation look to it.

Now I can tweak the files in RedCine or RedAlert to match what I thought I was shooting, but there are times when I'd like to avoid this. I've got a number of clients who want to use the proxies (or convert them to ProRes) with little to no color correcting.

Is there anyway (without remaking the proxies in RedAlert) to get the proxies to look like the image coming out of the camera's video taps?

Why do the images look different anyway? I thought both were using a 709 profile?

 

[jimhare]

This is correct. For the preview out, the camera adds a REC709 curve to make it pleasing to the eye, but the sensor data itself is being captured, not 709.

This gives you much more control in post. If they just captured the REC709, you would have nearly the scope to push and pull the images.

If you think about it, it is really like film. When you see film before it is corrected, it almost always looks bland and lifeless. But everything is in there to pull out an amazing image.

RED is the same.

Jim

 

[Chris Armstrong]

But don't the quicktime proxies use a REC709 profile as well? So shouldn't they look the same played from a computer (via a kona), as the files played back from the camera out of the 720 preview?

 

[Brian Broz]

ElysianChris I was wondering the exact same thing. Why do the proxies look so different when playing off the camera vs off the computer.
Like you said I thought both had a REC709 applied but obviously something is very different.
Can anyone chime in as to why?

 

[Mike Prevette]

IT would be nice if the proxy LUT matched the LUT the camera uses for playback, but unfortunately at this point it doesn't. I think a lot of it has to do with the debayer the camera is doing VS the one in the quicktime codec.

 

[Trevor Meier]

Calibration between the systems - allowing a colour look created in-camera to apply to every output, whether video tap, proxy, or Red Alert - is almost #1 on my priority list for build 16. DP's need to be able to trust that what they see on their monitor is what studios and editors are working with when it gets passed along, without needing intervention.

 

[Chris Armstrong]

DP's need to be able to trust that what they see on their monitor is what studios and editors are working with when it gets passed along, without needing intervention.

I agree. As much as I love RED's freedom in post. A number of clients want to shoot using the RED but don't want to do much (if any) color correction in post. It would be great if the image coming from the monitor would more closely match what the proxies show.

Anybody know if this will be addressed in build 16 or later?

 

[Jeremy Newmark]

A number of clients want to shoot using the RED but don't want to do much (if any) color correction in post.

If that's the case, then a redone probably isn't a good fit for them in it's current state.

It would be great if the image coming from the monitor would more closely match what the proxies show.

Anybody know if this will be addressed in build 16 or later?

It has been stated that LUT workflows will be coming as well as a RAW look from the outputs, but weather that is in build 16 or in a later build, well only the Red folks know that.

 

[jimhare]

It's certainly a challenge. It would be like shooting film and not doing a one light for dailies.

Since it's not a video camera, there really isn't a WYSISYG.

Having said that, I think a few people are writing REDLINE scripts to batch everything through a single LUT and output for editing.

Would mean not supplying your footage until the next day, but could be a solution?

Jim

 

[Anders Holck]

The QT proxies is most likely in the Camera RGB colorspace.
A "Camera RGB>Rec.709" fxplug would be nice..