Sony Vegas Support?

[NormLi]

Any ideas if Sony Vegas will support .r3d files soon?

If it's not for 2k-4k finishing, can we just use RedCine to export 1080p/720p clips and edit/export from there in Vegas for corporate projects?

Haven't heard much talk on this here.

Thanks.

 

[donatello b]

maybe , maybe not ... sony media are looking into what is possible for Vegas users .. remember sony media needs to know there is a demand from Vegas users for a Red vegas workflow ...
not much can be done until Red release the SDK ( or is it SKD?) .. at NAB
i was at sony Vegas booth on Monday ,was told that they have spoken to Red in past about SDK thing ... i then walked down to the Red booth with the sony media VP to see if Ted was around .. he wasn't - sony media VP was going to stop by on wednesday or thursday AM before floor was open to try to speak to Ted .. don't know if that happened ...

 

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

Well it's great to hear that Sony is at least interested and has had some conversations. I REALLY want to be able to continue using Vegas as my editing platform and with a raw workflow. I'll be looking into Cineform's tools, of course, but native support for R3D in Vegas would be optimal.

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

You mean Sony Vegas?

My psychic powers tell me it'll be the last platform to get RED support.

.

 

[David Taylor]

At the time CineForm is able to offer a Red workflow on Windows we also intend to support Vegas with CineForm RAW in a similar timeframe. This is consistent with our current (non-Red) Vegas workflow today.

 

[donatello b]

"My psychic powers tell me it'll be the last platform to get RED support "

the sony media division in madison,WI is very independent of sony ,japan ..
if Cineform comes up with a solution 1st and it works in Vegas at a affordable price then i would assume sony media will spend their R&D elsewhere ... it all comes down to numbers requesting support for specific codec's workflows ...

 

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Yeah, it's more likely to happen through the Cineform solutions.

 

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

At the time CineForm is able to offer a Red workflow on Windows we also intend to support Vegas with CineForm RAW in a similar timeframe. This is consistent with our current (non-Red) Vegas workflow today.

Thanks for that info, David. Can you clarify the major features of this workflow? In other words, with Cineform installed, does it work "under the hood" to allow R3D files to open directly in Vegas, or must there be an external transcode to Cineform RAW first? If it's the latter, how long does the transcode take?

 

[David Taylor]

Thanks for that info, David. Can you clarify the major features of this workflow? In other words, with Cineform installed, does it work "under the hood" to allow R3D files to open directly in Vegas, or must there be an external transcode to Cineform RAW first? If it's the latter, how long does the transcode take?

Eclaire, as CineForm does for support of all cameras (RAW or non-RAW), we convert camera formats to CineForm files and maintain chroma space; ie, Source Raw --> Cineform RAW; Source 444 --> CineForm 444; and Source YUV --> CineForm 422.

Our support for Vegas will be similar to our support for Premiere Pro, including active metadata on CineForm RAW. But we do not replace the video engine in Vegas as we do in Premiere Pro, so we will do a little bit less for Vegas than we do for Premiere. The CineForm product you'll use for Vegas is Neo 4K.

I would rather not get into performance figures yet for conversion of Red footage as that is too workflow specific, and we need to see the SDK first. There have been other conversion speed figures mentioned in the forum that are close to our experience with early firmware builds.

 

[Disco Legend Zeke]

opinion
CineForm and Sony have shown their willingness to provision new recording formats as they emerge. The original CineForm tools for our new HDV was purchased by Sony very quickly. Indeed, SONY spent a lot of money trying to make a great NLE, and ended up buying Sound Forge.

meanwhile you will want proxies for a lot of early stuff anyway.

newbie question
I am DP on two projects, one requiring hours of live recording from stage preformances.

I already see firewire and USB hard drives on the shelf at fry's for $200 per TeraByte. Compared to a roll of 1 inch digital tape, its a bargain.

Are there standard hard drive output capabilities built into the red cam? Or is the recording hardware proprietary? thanks

 

[jbeale]

The Red Drive sold by Red is a proprietary module based on two 160 GB laptop drives in a RAID 0 configuration. They use a raid because AFAIK there is no single drive fast enough to support the current data rates. The Red drive has standard I/O (firewire 400/800 and USB2) so once you've recorded the camera data to the drive, you can then transfer to any other drives using any standard laptop or desktop computer.

See also: http://www.red.com/accessories/digital_storage

 

[Disco Legend Zeke]

...The Red drive has standard I/O (firewire 400/800 and USB2) so once you've recorded the camera data to the drive, you can then transfer to any other drives ]

but... can i take the stream from the camera directly to a generic raid array?

This is not just a matter of cost (although those little "EEP" sounds in th background are my boss pinching pennies.) A larger RAID with mirroring would give us a dupe master at shooting time, as well as saving the data transfer steps.

 

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

but... can i take the stream from the camera directly to a generic raid array?

This is not just a matter of cost (although those little "EEP" sounds in th background are my boss pinching pennies.) A larger RAID with mirroring would give us a dupe master at shooting time, as well as saving the data transfer steps.

Information relevant to your question is in post #5 of this thread:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12589

 

[Joe Carney]

I'm glad to hear Madison is open to this. I just wouldn't count on too much until they get the 64bit version out in September. (Free upgrade to ver 8 users). I'm hoping the add >8bit per channel support in QT, plus add Directshow or something better than vfw. Currently Neo works in 8bit AFAIK.

 

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

Well, i´m actually cutting in vegas 8 with QTs 720p24 photo jpeg clips exported from redcine. I get realtime (BEST full res) with some grading and the quality is just amazing.

 

[donatello b]

i'm cutting in Vegas 7 ...
using the H proxy in FCP - export out as 2k (2:1 aspect) to Cineform codec (.mov) ..(note: do not export 2:1 aspect out as 1920x1080= image will be slight soft -always export matching the aspect of the proxy you are using in TL) ..

set up vegas project as HD 1080p 24p then custom the frame size height x W pixels to match the 2k 2:1 aspect ...
On Dell quad core ( 2.14) 4 gig ram ... 7200rpm internal drive .. preview quality set to GOOD - auto ... RT play back with CC ... if i set up project as SD widescreen then play back drops to 6-8fps ...
windows Media play can play back RT full 2k size ..

can't wait for the cineform export tool after Red releases SDK ...

Macgregor - are you using jpeg A or B clips or just jpep ?

update: i just installed 2 one terrebyte drive running raid 0 and now i can get 24fps playback (2k/HD/SD) in Vegas

 

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

Just Jpeg. THe file size is so small compared to uncompressed, while the image quality remains excellent even after heavy gradings.

The only issue with vegas is the 8bit limit.

 

[NormLi]

So Macgregor, if you are cutting 720p24, are you planning to finish to 720p24?

Another thing I noticed that everyone may be interested in, is when I export a sequence (graded in FCP) to 1080p Quicktime from the _H proxy and import into Vegas8 as a 1080p24 timeline, it looks super sharp but the image that looks bright and dandy in FCP is now super dark and crushed in Vegas. I had to bump up the contrast/brightness again to match it to the FCP stuff...from there, I created a blu-ray disc directly from the Vegas8 timeline.

Any reasons why it would look so different? I also did a test where I just exported two identical clips to blu-ray from the Vegas8 timeline, one with just straight import from FCP quicktime file and then the same file dupped but bumping the contrast/brightness up. When I played back on standalone samsung blu-ray player, it corresponded with what I saw on the Vegas timeline. How about the FCP6 timeline stuff, is it falsely looking bright and normal? Tried on seperate screens and on the same screen with the same results.

 

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

Well, FCP gamma issues + qt gamma issues + apple gamma 1.8, means you have no control of color gamma right now at this moment. It sucks. You have to use an external TV monitor to see what you are doing.

Vegas on the contrary shows the 709 color space in RGB so unless you apply a preview filter that converts from RGB to studio, everything will look a bit more contrasty at the end.

 

[vincelucero]

Great to hear ppl are getting Vegas to cut RED somehow. I love the program for it's speed and realtime properties. Sad that Sony took it over as I think Sonic Foundry would have kicked some serious ass with P2 and R3Ds. Had to move over to FCP once we got our HVX, although I still cut long form stuff on Vegas.