RED+cookes s4i?

[martin.kryjom]

HI
Do u think guys is worth to buy set of cooke's s4i lenses for RED.
Is Red "sensitive" for lens or for sensor it will make no big difference?
Please let me know as i have to pay around 70 k dollars for whole set .
I thinking to switch for EPIC in a future and also i rent the lenses.
But for now most important for me is RED one and IF I CAN GET EXTRA QUALITY with this lenses.

I think to buy
25mm s4i
35mm s4i
50mm s4i
75mm s4i

Please help me to make decision
best regards
MARTIN

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

wait for reds primes.
for the love of god

 

[martin.kryjom]

Red primes can be great solution , but they are not available yet and no one can tell me when they will start to sell it. ALso even when they start it soon it will be so many orders that it can be few months before i get it.
Other thing is that from rental point of view cookes looks better as they are more knowns in film industry,

The thing is if i can get better quality pictures from RED one with cookes ,or the improvment over the lenses what are available now , will be very invisible?

best regards
MARTIN

 

[Mark Toia]

HI
Do u think guys is worth to buy set of cooke's s4i lenses for RED.
Is Red "sensitive" for lens or for sensor it will make no big difference?
Please let me know as i have to pay around 70 k dollars for whole set .
I thinking to switch for EPIC in a future and also i rent the lenses.
But for now most important for me is RED one and IF I CAN GET EXTRA QUALITY with this lenses.

I think to buy
25mm s4i
35mm s4i
50mm s4i
75mm s4i

Please help me to make decision
best regards
MARTIN

Hi Martin,

I had been going through this same scenario for months. We made the decision to go Ziess Super speed 1.3 PRIMES full set.

We tried and tested the Arri Master Primes f1.3, full set of 16 lenses @($275,000). The best quality out of all the lens we tested, so much so, it made everything else look like crap. I don't know how they did it, but these lenses are top of the class.

We tried and tested the Cooke s4's, f.2.9 full set of 20 lenses was priced $180,000) Also a brilliant lenses system. Great quality. Not as good as the ARRI's but still very very good.
Only problem, only T2...
f 1.3 makes a very big difference when you searching for light and night.

We tried and ended up buying Ziess Super speeds. F1.3.
Equal to the Cooke's we felt for contrast and sharpness.
Price was $56,000 for 6 lens. 18,24,50,75,90,110 all F1.3

The only reason we bought our own primes is that RED have not got a date for release, and there have been no tests showing if they are going to be great or not. (I'm sure they will be fine). If there is going to be a Que for these as there is for the RED's well the wait will be long and painful.

My only worry is the RED primes are only going to be T2. not 1.3. This does make a big difference when you are working in low light. Why by primes other wise. just stick with a ZOOM.
The other thing is the wait for RED, but you get stuck in RENTAL madness.

Owning your own glass, you never go backwards, You can RENT them out and bill them to jobs. you never go backwards owning them. Never.
10 years later you have made 4 times what they cost you and when your about to retire, you sell them for more than what you paid for them.

The only other option is RENT, but you are paying off someone else finance bill. not your own.
They own a great set of lenses at the end, you own nothing after RENTING for 3 years.

food for thought.
hope this helps.

 

[martin.kryjom]

HI
Great response, thank u.

Please tell me , are u gonna buy new zaiss lenses? As in Europe price is much higher. For cookes set of 5 NEW lenses i have to pay 32 k GB so is around 70 k dollars. But u price for zaiss is great , 56 000 for 6 lenses, wow. ARe they new?

Best regards
MARTIN

 

[Mike Zinner]

martin, if you want to do yourself a favor go with the Cooke S4/i 15-40mm T2. This is the ultimate wide zoom, it *rocks* on the Red. And you save yourself the pain of frequent lens changes. It is darn expensive but worth every penny.

In that case I would also leave the 50mm out to save money and go straight to the 75mm. This combination is what I found myself using most of the time.

 

[Mark Toia]

martin, if you want to do yourself a favor go with the Cooke S4/i 15-40mm T2. This is the ultimate wide zoom, it *rocks* on the Red. And you save yourself the pain of frequent lens changes. It is darn expensive but worth every penny.

In that case I would also leave the 50mm out to save money and go straight to the 75mm. This combination is what I found myself using most of the time.

Yes 15 to 40 is a great lens. F2 as well. Very sharp, great contrast.
but still you need , 50, 75, 100 at least to finish range.

A very Expensive exercise yet still good Zoom.
But in saying that, RED's 18 to 50 is amazing for the price.

 

[Mark Toia]

HI
Great response, thank u.

Please tell me , are u gonna buy new zaiss lenses? As in Europe price is much higher. For cookes set of 5 NEW lenses i have to pay 32 k GB so is around 70 k dollars. But u price for zaiss is great , 56 000 for 6 lenses, wow. ARe they new?

Best regards
MARTIN

Our Ziess MK111 super speeds were used. Perfect condition, US 56,000
Replacement US 70k.

Honestly, if your after superspeeds, go f1.3 or nothing,
If your not fussed about f stops that much, go a good qualtiy Zoom with a stop of around 2 to 2.2.
Zooms are time savers.

Ooooh, almost forgot to mention. Arri varible primes, WOW! find a good second set of those used.
/Users/Mark/Desktop/arri-2.2 zooms.jpg

 

[Mark Toia]

In short there is no short cut to cheap primes. Especially super speeds.
T2 is not a super speed.

If your lucky you can pick up a good set of Ziess Superspeeds, but the world knows that these have now become a comodity since RED as spawned a whole new world of new cinematographers with there own gear.

Only a year ago, people couldn't give them away. now they are the hottest thing since the invention of the hoola hoop.

RED primes are going to be good and cheap, but the wait will be long. Bank on another year or so before anyone see them. maybe longer.

 

[Harry Clark]

Big T, check your post.
Zeiss Superspeed Cine Lenses are 18, 25, 35, 50, 65, 85.
Some of the focal lengths you listed are not in that set. Never were.
Cheers,
Harry

 

[martin.kryjom]

hi mike.
I thought about the same set, zoom +75 but the price is only 1000 less then whole set i have listed above so i decided to go with no zoom lenses as they have a lit bit worsk quality compare to non zoom lenses.
Or in this case i'm wrong?

 

[Harry Clark]

Martin,
I have a set of Cookes. Very nice. They were sort of a vanity purchase because I end up using my Superspeeds more often, but in my opinion, nothing renders the human face nicer than Cookes.
I have the 15-40 and it really is nice. It also replaces 9 primes, so in theory you're saving over $100,000 when you buy this $47,000 lens.
In terms of whether it makes a visible difference... hard to say. Lots of people here shoot charts, wedges, and Seimens' stars and declare one brand or type of lens better. The truth is, on even an HD monitor with moving pictures you will be hard pressed to tell. On the big screen you will.
You need to assess the type of work you do to decide whether spending $40,000 for a set vs. $200,000 for a set is worth it. For the occasional "big screen" job, just rent...
Cheers,
Harry

 

[Mike Zinner]

martin, the biggest problem with the zoom is, that it is big. Really big and heavy. Impossible to do handheld shots with it. Also, my O'Connor 1030HD does not work well with the zoom simply because it is too heavy. It is no problem on our bigger Sachtler.

http://zinner.org/z/plogger/images/projects/red_unboxing/redunboxing30.jpg

Picture-wise the zoom is perfect, from my observation it resolves more resolution than the Red One, so no problem there. Barrel distortion is extremely low.

And again, after having used only primes for some time I cannot tell you how much I enjoy to be able to frame every shot exactly the way I want - without frequent lens changes and moving the camera all the time. Especially indoors.

And I never used the 50mm when I got the zoom mounted

 

[Harry Clark]

Miike, impossible to handhold? Come on. It's 8 lbs. Not featherweight but not impossible. Not even uncomfortable.
He's got a certain amount of $$$ to spend and asked specifically about Cookes. I think the 15-40 is a good solution in his case.
Cheers,
Harry

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I have NEVER seen glass so tight on the East coast. NYC is slammin' busy.

I have TWO sets of Cooke S4's out for the month of May - one from Abel and one from CSC- and can't find another set to save my life.

Harry call my office today if your Cooke set is available.

I need Red Primes yesterday.

 

[radiant]

Hello Martin,
As far as lenses go I would never purchase lenses blind without seeing them and testing them.

I am hoping the RED primes will be much better than their RED zoom 18-50 which I truly do not care for.

We own and have tested the following lenses: Arri Super Speed's, Cooke S4's & Arri Master Primes.

I must agree with everyone else. I find my self using the Super Speed's & Master Primes, because of the T1.3 vs. 2.0 thats a full stop difference.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

I have NEVER seen glass so tight on the East coast. NYC is slammin' busy.

I have TWO sets of Cooke S4's out for the month of May - one from Abel and one from CSC- and can't find another set to save my life.

Harry call my office today if your Cooke set is available.

I need Red Primes yesterday.

I thought this was a european phenomenon...

 

[martin.kryjom]

HI
Thanks everybody for u very usefull response.
I know that superspeed zaiss is better but as a new it cost a fortune, and actually is hard to buy. I have emaild to zaiss factory and they told be that i should conntact ARRI as they do it only for ARRI right now.And Arri as extremally expensive.
I wonna buy new lenses , becouse lenses should be new and most important reason is that in Europe 2nd hand market is very litle. No chance to get cooks or zaiss, and buying from US via internet 2nd hand lenses would be risky from many reasons.

Only thing is to buy as zoom or whole range of primes.
Is giving me headache as i need to make a deposit in 2 days to get it around august.

I know that for rental i will use it mostlly for TV PAL, but i will also shoot some future films in cinema format, and transfering back to tape. I'm afraiid that if i use zoom it will be much softer then no zoom lenses.

Hard decision to make, i think hardest becouse it is expensive and for a years not for short time of period.

 

[Mark Toia]

Big T, check your post.
Zeiss Superspeed Cine Lenses are 18, 25, 35, 50, 65, 85.
Some of the focal lengths you listed are not in that set. Never were.
Cheers,
Harry

Just went down stairs and opened the box up.
inside is:

ZEISS 18MM MKIII T1.3 SUPER SPEED
ZIESS 25MM MKIII T1.3 SUPER SPEED
ZIESS 35MM MKIII T1.3 SUPER SPEED
ZIESS 50MM MKIII T1.3 SUPER SPEED
ZIESS 65MM MKIII T1.3 SUPER SPEED
ZIESS 85MM MKIII T1.3 SUPER SPEED
ZEISS 100mm (T2.1). PRIME.

Sorry harry, only had them a couple of weeks and was only guessing before.

thanks

 

[Mark Toia]

HI
Thanks everybody for u very usefull response.
I know that superspeed zaiss is better but as a new it cost a fortune, and actually is hard to buy. I have emaild to zaiss factory and they told be that i should conntact ARRI as they do it only for ARRI right now.And Arri as extremally expensive.
I wonna buy new lenses , becouse lenses should be new and most important reason is that in Europe 2nd hand market is very litle. No chance to get cooks or zaiss, and buying from US via internet 2nd hand lenses would be risky from many reasons.

Only thing is to buy as zoom or whole range of primes.
Is giving me headache as i need to make a deposit in 2 days to get it around august.

I know that for rental i will use it mostlly for TV PAL, but i will also shoot some future films in cinema format, and transfering back to tape. I'm afraiid that if i use zoom it will be much softer then no zoom lenses.

Hard decision to make, i think hardest becouse it is expensive and for a years not for short time of period.

Call this guy,

Stuart Rabin
FOCUS OPTICS
TEL.818.757.1007
FAX.818.757.1029
stuart@focusoptics.com

We got our lenses from him
He get them in time to time.