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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

CinemaDNG

Adobe is the perfect entity to try and accomplish this task, I really hope that they succeed!
 
khmuse said:
Adobe is the perfect entity to try and accomplish this task, I really hope that they succeed!
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I fully agree.
We have to give cineform credits here, because they already support any raw camera besides red and therefore have become a de-facto DNG. Iridas are also pretty far arhead, they also support any RAW-bayer digital cinematography camera. Both only wait for red to allow them to release their internal version once redcode v16 is finally opened and standardized.
 
Well, the first time I read this press release, it had RED at the top of the list of cameras cooperating with Adobe, now RED is nowhere to be found....
 
I am pretty sure that RED wants to introduce with its marketshare in digital cinematography its own standard like Kodak did with .cin. .r3d will be a proprietary fileformat that NLE's and online finishing systems have to adopt if they want to be compliant with RED.

RED does not feel the need to join a coalition.

May be I'm wrong but unfortunately I doubt it.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
I am pretty sure that RED wants to introduce with its marketshare in digital cinematography its own standard like Kodak did with .cin. .r3d will be a proprietary fileformat that NLE's and online finishing systems have to adopt if they want to be compliant with RED.

RED does not feel the need to join a coalition.

May be I'm wrong but unfortunately I doubt it.

Hans
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Hmm, i hope you are wrong!

That would be a very bad choice imho.

Also red stated -many- times that they -want- to open redcode, and as they said that their closed workflow would end by april and only postponed due to overload in the r&d, that would be a most unpleasant surprise.

Most of the momentum which red looses, in my experience here, is not because of the grumpy naysayers, the camera itself, the price or whatever, but simply because many regular posthouses and cautious producers simply say "its not fitting in our proven, trained and paid workflow patterns".

For innovators thats less of an issue, however most of the industry sadly is rather less innovative...
 
Oh yes,

RED code will be open, as far as I understand it. Anybody, or at least most can lay there hands on it. Still it reamains .r3d without one of the industry wrappers, say QT or AVI. Proprietary but open. No Cinema DNG.

May be they will wrap it into QT. But I doubt it. They don't have to. All will adopt it. I think its a refreshing feeling to turn a whole industry upside down and inhale the fresh air of independency.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Oh yes,

RED code will be open, as far as I understand it. Anybody, or at least most can lay there hands on it. Still it reamains .r3d without one of the industry wrappers, say QT or AVI. Proprietary but open. No Cinema DNG.

May be they will wrap it into QT. But I doubt it. They don't have to. All will adopt it. I think its a refreshing feeling to turn a whole industry upside down and breath the fresh air of independency.

Hans
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Hmm, i sure do hope that we will see much support for R3D once red allows the huge majority of the market. But 5000 or 50.000 raw cameras will still be a niche market soon - compared to the countless AVH / HDV prosumer devices and, probably, the flood olympus/nikons/canons former "still cameras" etc which we will encounter soon enough in the heart of our industry.

p.s.
recently i bought a compact digital cam just for one holiday without any tests in a hurry - a rather inexpensive canon. When checking it out in the plane, I was slightly surprised to find out that it had PAL/NTSC recording... from a 8 or 10 mp sensor with a 4x zoom. i suppose most of the 250-10.000 nikons, canons etc will use cinemaDNG, and it would be great to see a industry wide support for red via this format - it would extremly benefit the market penetration of red shot footage and post.

Anyhow, with redcode open and red->cineform on osx and win, the pressure to have something as CinemaDNG is not really intense for red, thats for sure.
 
A little birdy told me that Redcode is nothing but a gussied up variant of JPEG2000. The Metadata stuff of course is unique.

The basic portions of JPEG2000 are patent un-encumbered. So really, if
Red just published the specs (assuming they haven't attempted to patent protect anything else they are doing in there) it would be wide open for anyone to implement. You might see native r3d editing in Cinellera, for example, before you even saw it in Premiere or Vegas.

Personally, I'd rather see Red team up with Adobe and just standardize on CinemaDNG (whatever it turns out to be) Since having a single standard would be better for the industry in the long term and would probably only serve to help Red since other third parties would only need to support CinemaDNG instead of a thousand RAW formats from every camera.
 
lordtangent said:
A little birdy told me that Redcode is nothing but a gussied up variant of JPEG2000. The Metadata stuff of course is unique.

The basic portions of JPEG2000 are patent un-encumbered. So really, if
Red just published the specs (assuming they haven't attempted to patent protect anything else they are doing in there) it would be wide open for anyone to implement. You might see native r3d editing in Cinellera, for example, before you even saw it in Premiere or Vegas.

Personally, I'd rather see Red team up with Adobe and just standardize on CinemaDNG (whatever it turns out to be) Since having a single standard would be better for the industry in the long term and would probably only serve to help Red since other third parties would only need to support CinemaDNG instead of a thousand RAW formats from every camera.
Click to expand...

Iridas and cineform already support, different from scratch or fcp, native s:i, dalsa, arri, weisscam,phatom etc raw data. red is the only one missing.

the (not officially presented) raw workflows of the so far nor allowed companies are faster, better, less expensive etc. red should benefit of this, and the 2 existing redcode raw postsolutions (fcp & scratch) are certainly limited in comparison to their counterparts.

CinemaDNG will solve this over time.
I hope red joins soon - that would be pretty helpful for their customers and especially for the customers of their customers.

I cant wait to see the sdk released to finally end this bug-loaded fcp episode and finally get much more powerful and extremely functional standard tools as smoke instead of the current windows 2K redcode raw system.
 
Presumably this will be a lossless format? I don`t care what type of wavelet is used in .R3D or whether its jpeg200 (I doubt it very much), if I can transcode it into a lossless 12bit linear beyer open format, I`d be very happy indeed. This would be great, especially since, most filters in Premiere and after effects can process higher bit depth colours, not just 8bit channels.
 
I hope Adobe are talking to Cineform. It sounds like Adobe and Cineform are doing some similar things. They're both working on RAW workflows and on clever ways to non-destructively colour correct using metadata.

Personally, I'm really looking forward to:

Shooting on a Scarlet + Brevis35 + Nikon primes; converting R3D to cinemaDNG or Cineform, editing in PPro whilst making "broadstrokes" grades. Then, once the edit is locked (or even before it's completely locked) I can grade it using the "broad strokes" grades as a starting point but still referencing the original RAW files.
 
Strangely, Premiere Pro CS3 does not even support Adobe's current .DNG file format, which is kinda lame.

BTW, I hope Jim and Red will play nice with this CinemaDNG.
 
dan_aka_jack said:
I hope Adobe are talking to Cineform.
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If Adobe is really clever they should even try to offer cineform a -high- price to sell.

Adobe loves powerful fileformat (flash, pdf, psd, eps...) and DNG charged with Cineform would basically be free fom any competition. CIneform with active metadata is certainly some years ahead of the crows.
 
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