For the Red team - mechanical shutter and through-lens viewfinder

[Davide B.]

Here's my take (and I have used optical viewfinders):

An LCD, EVF is better for checking color/exposure
An optical viewfinder is better for checking focus.

The Dalsa origin allows for both which is awesome. Since the camera has both an optical viewfinder and a global shutter it doesn't have any rolling shutter artifacts. I'm guessing that the main reason Red doesn't include an optical viewfinder is cost. They are extremely expensive pieces of equipment and have to be realligned every once in awhile to make sure you're getting proper back focus.

Just because the Red team neglects to implement something doesn't mean that that something is worthless. It could be a cost-saving measure. And being low-cost relative to its competition is one of Red's best qualities.

 

[Chris Burket]

Isn't PS Technik introducing an optical finder for the red?

 

[Davide B.]

I believe that that optical viewfinder is for the SI-2K, although it may work on the Red One as well. It's listed under the SI-2k section and says that it includes a b4 mount. It may only project 16mm image into the eyepiece.

Also, it's a 50/50 prism viewfinder not a mirrored shutter. In a mirrored shutter you see the image in the viewfinder only when the sensor isn't exposed. This splits the light going through the lens and sends part to the sensor and part to the viewfinder. So it'll be cheaper than the kind on the Arri D20 Dalsa but it's going to cause light loss. At least that's what the product description leads me to believe.

vihttp://www.pstechnik.de/en/optics-ims-ovf.php

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Here's my take (even though I've sorta promised myself not to post too much... Which I've been doing...)

The OVF guys have a very good case, untill RED opens for a 1:1 B&W preview because then the EVF will be much better, but the case is less strong if you use a tape measurer (which the same guys seems to prefer...)

To judge colors through you OVF/EVF/LCD is just plain.... not good, if you're going for a RAW workflow (I don't use the Digital Negative term, just not to put people off...) Because what's actually recorded does not depend on your white-ballance/saturation/contrast settings for preview.

If You're shooting RED like video, theses parameters are of a high importance, but that approach also nullifies this discussion....

You should (THOU SHALT!!! - ) know which workflow you're going for when you shoot.

If you're going for "high end images"/RAW workflow you should only worry about exposure, and framing and FORGET color and actually apparent contrast as an element of "WYSIWYG". It's not true. Trust the DR and you'll have that back in post. The videotap is anyway noisy and lowrez. (and in this situation, the LCD/EVF is actually just a videotap...) It is What you light for is what you get... Use a tape measure if you're not shure... Collaminate your lenses and you're good.

If you are going for a video workflow (which is very possible, but should not be confused with "that other thing", you should turn on your colors and shoot and trust what you see.

If you're shootingfor a RAW workflow, you should turn your colors off, use your meters and trust your knowledge.

The big (and very confusing, it seems) issue with RED, is that you have to know which workflow you're shooting for and just trust the post guys in either case....


Gunleik

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Here's my take (and I have used optical viewfinders):

An LCD, EVF is better for checking color/exposure
An optical viewfinder is better for checking focus.

Agree and I would much rather have the focus and then an on-board monitor for color, kind of get both worlds with that :wink:

Also don't forget that you don't have to have the camera turned on to check framings with an OVF.


regards,

Fredrik Callinggard

 

[Richard Lackey]

If you're going for "high end images"/RAW workflow you should only worry about exposure, and framing and FORGET color and actually apparent contrast as an element of "WYSIWYG". It's not true. Trust the DR and you'll have that back in post. The videotap is anyway noisy and lowrez. (and in this situation, the LCD/EVF is actually just a videotap...) It is What you light for is what you get... Use a tape measure if you're not shure... Collaminate your lenses and you're good.

Gunleik, by RAW workflow, what do you mean? Are you talking still about shooting RedcodeRAW or uncompressed RAW out of the optical port to a fridge full of hard drives (which I have just noticed doesn't seem to be offered anymore)?

Rich

 

[Gunleik Groven]

Gunleik, by RAW workflow, what do you mean? Are you talking still about shooting RedcodeRAW or uncompressed RAW out of the optical port to a fridge full of hard drives (which I have just noticed doesn't seem to be offered anymore)?

Rich

I'm talking REDCODE RAW -> developed to uncompressed 10/16 bit.

I really think the EPIC idea of 100 MB/sec redcode RAW is cool, but compressed RAW is mainly just very good IMHO.

I do wonder how they recorded the milgirl shots, though. Were they redcode RAW or were they uncompressed RAW.

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

If you're going for "high end images"/RAW workflow you should only worry about exposure, and framing and FORGET color and actually apparent contrast as an element of "WYSIWYG". It's not true. Trust the DR and you'll have that back in post. The videotap is anyway noisy and lowrez. (and in this situation, the LCD/EVF is actually just a videotap...) It is What you light for is what you get... Use a tape measure if you're not shure... Collaminate your lenses and you're good.

Trust the DR? When it's more like 7.5 stops, which is more like reversal I wouldn't. It's true that it's RAW and it's no use of thinking any other ASA than 320, which it records in, but then trust it for what it is, 7.5 stops :waaa: .

The SDI's are a rec709 preview in many ways, so they do describe fairly ok (in HD) what output you can get, but of course many things can be changed during post process.

You should always trust your instinct and when it comes to RAW, histograms and zebra hahahaha, but don't let it rule you! Don't follow it religiously!

TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS!

regards,


Fredrik

 

[Vincent Rice]

Jim and other RED's have emphatically stated that there will be no optical finders from them. End of story.

 

[Dominic Cochran]

Jim and other RED's have emphatically stated that there will be no optical finders from them. End of story.

It's actually NOT the end of the story when there are 3rd party manufacturers building new fronts for RED's cameras that include OVFs. That's what we've been discussing.