This camera IS a joke.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Another interesting idea that came up early on in the day was that maybe the proximity to loudly blasted drums in the close ups of the drums and the vibrations being maybe responsible to some of the problems that the drive was having, which seemed to have gone away when we switched to the card. That seemed to have been disproved later in the day when the problems continued on other shots, but could that have possibly been a trigger?

Sorry just saw your post. If the drop frames occured when you were close to the "music" sources as drums or speakers, mainly speakers. Or if you where in the middle of the direction of the speakers.
But didn't occur the further away you were - or if you moved out of the projection path. Well then it's possible it was Harmonic noise distortion. What kind of music was it?

fred

 

[davidjakubovic]

Oh, it was loud blasting rock music, so it's totally possible it had something to do with it.

Roy, to your question, we didn't have two drives. However, we also encountered the problem with the card, not only the drive. But less. At first we thought the drive was being affected by the drums so we changed to the cards and it seemed to work better for the shots that were close to the drums, but later we had the same problems with the cards too, so we were not finding any consistency with when the problems occurred anymore. We did have a jib too and we did do a lot of handheld, so for sure the camera was always moving.

I'm quite nervous now about the shots, with what you said about redcine. I get the footage tomorrow or the next day, so we'll see what happens!

 

[Fredrik Callinggard]

As for that. I strongly suggest you off line with Prores. Do the conversion with all non 16:9 4K material through compressor from the proxies. That is the quickest way of converting - about 2 or 3:1. With REDcine it'll be 10 to 20:1 depending on clip. Edit in Prores so you don't have the problem of FCP suddenly quitting on you that can happen. The proxy support is not 100% stable, it works but is not stable.

Then have a look at crimsonworkflow.com for moving your project from FCP to REDcine - that's easy


fred

 

[davidjakubovic]

Excellent, thank you. I will probably ask about this when I get the footage.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

As for that. I strongly suggest you off line with Prores. Do the conversion with all non 16:9 4K material through compressor from the proxies. That is the quickest way of converting - about 2 or 3:1. With REDcine it'll be 10 to 20:1 depending on clip. Edit in Prores so you don't have the problem of FCP suddenly quitting on you that can happen. The proxy support is not 100% stable, it works but is not stable.

Then have a look at crimsonworkflow.com for moving your project from FCP to REDcine - that's easy


fred

what about the new plug in in relation with crimson...does it work? didnt try it myself....

 

[CJ Roy]

Great evolution. From dissent to helpfulness. Just what this community is capable of and made for in my sense. A lot of blood was shed but in the end, what remains and matters, opinions and experience have won over personnal issues and flamboyance.

Have no pride fellows, as one may find love in adversity. humility is the way. Life is full of surprises, ans so is Red...

Have a nice day and welcome to Red David.

That's the best part of this community, the evolution of discussions. Being defensive because someone had a bad experience with Red, or because someone just flat out hates HD, doesn't do anything for the cause.

You can't argue opinion, but you can help shed some light on the benefits of this camera.

 

[Lexicon]

Throughout this entire thread I don't think I read once that they were using the RED CF cards. Just CF cards. Maybe that had something to do with it.

 

[Matt Sconce]

Good luck with the footage. Hope all goes well!

 

[David Wyatt]

David, a couple of possible culprits:

1. I'd hope that the actual release build of Build 13 was being used rather than one of the earlier, buggier versions of 13 (check with the guy you rented from)? Anything earlier than v.1.8.8 won't be the Release Build but a Beta build instead. By this stage probably only the owner-operator guy that rented out the camera would know for sure. I also wonder whether the codec error you were getting was a "ROCKETIO" error (used to get a few of those on pre-release level builds but not any more, bug solved). I'd also hope all your Red CF cards and RedDrive were properly formatted on camera (if I'm right these came from someone else (a proper rental company) who could've been on a different Firmware Build altogether?). Things like this are all steps an experienced DIT would make sure are covered.

2. As far as I can remember RedCode 36 didn't come out till Build 14 (I think), so the error messages you were getting wouldn't be related to trying to shoot RedCode 36 to Compact Flash. The drop frames would appear to have nothing to with faulty hard drives, cables either because they were happening on both RedDrive & Compact Flash (although less on CF). CF has no moving parts so there's no way loud rock music's gonna throw that off its game.

3. Just out of interest were you running off mains or battery?

4. Shooting 4K 16:9 probably wouldn't have helped your cause (it'll make your post a bit of a pain too), but then I think you changed to 4K 2:1 and still had a few problems?). I don't know if you were trying to do any higher frame rates? What was your project frame rate? 24fps should be fine but if you were trying to do 29.97fps that only worked with the RedDrive not with Compact Flash. On one of the earlier builds if you tried to put in a frame rate that wasn't possible with the resolution (e.g. 40fps at 4K or 80fps at 2K) it would give you a strange error message that looked like a camera fault (rather than user error). Also if you ever tried changing project frame rate on the same RedDrive or Compact Flash card you'd get an error for that too (it's not possible). Most of the error messages are much better explained now in the release build of Build 15.

5. I've only ever seen a drop frame warning about once (gentle/normal handheld, quite long takes, on RedDrive back in the early pre-release days of Build 13) - simply retook the shot (in this respect, and with any unexpected error messages I treat it the same as I would a hair in the gate...be glad that it was spotted and simply do another take, no big deal. All cameras have faults (film cameras get hairs, scratches, develop unsteadiness/weave; video tape cameras can get drop frames too, the back focus can drift at will blah blah blah). One of the many great things about the Red camera is at least it tells you when it goes wrong so you can just do another take and get it right, rather than finding out in the edit that you've got loads of dropped frames, or hairs or scratches etc.

I'm sorry the camera didn't work out for you but I'm sure you realize the importance of having a DIT now (he probably could've troubleshot 90% of your problems, verified you were on a reliable firmware build...plus done little things like try to reinstall the firmware and re-format all the media which sometimes helps to iron out any kinks. Alternatively he could have even tried a more recent (but Beta) firmware to see if that ironed out any of your problems).

I hope you've found some of the trouble-shooting on this forum useful - we got there in the end (i.e. constructive trouble-shooting), but I certainly don't think the tone of your DP's original post helped us get there - it was kind of like going on a Mac forum and posting about how crap Macs are and how much better PCs are... guaranteed to raise the flames :devil:!! There's a right way & a wrong way about going about things and that unfortunately was the wrong way. In fact if there was an award ceremony for RedUser I'd certainly nominate that for "most inflammatory posting in a new thread category" lol Thanks for your part in helping to bring a bit more sanity to the proceedings.

 

[davidjakubovic]

Thank you very much, Dave. All good thoughts for sure. I am not that technical with the camera myself but I will make sure the DP and AC see all these good notes everyone came up with!

I will bring all of these ideas when we meet and go over the shoot with the rental house in a couple of weeks.

 

[David Wyatt]

Thank you very much, Dave. All good thoughts for sure. I am not that technical with the camera myself but I will make sure the DP and AC see all these good notes everyone came up with!

I will bring all of these ideas when we meet and go over the shoot with the rental house in a couple of weeks.

Good luck!