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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Has the whole "Red" world gone crazy?

S

Sidney L. Plaut

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Enough bitching and moaning about RED 1 and Epic... 5k overkill? there is no such thing as overkill, when it comes to shooting digital.

Red 1 obsolete? - a HD cam from 2000 is still not obsolete - with a 4k camera your good to go for quite a few years...

Epic 5k - does NOT mean your RED 1 is worthless, cant be rented out, used for commercials, films... just means that RED is serious about being nr 1. Havent heard of genesis 5k....

Buy 2 red 1 bodies or 1 Epic... at least RED gives you a choice. like to see you buy 2 f23... or even 1...

Look at the competition.... 2/3" sensors... 1920-1080... 140.000 euros (f23)... 30000euros or so for pana´s cameras... 5000 for sony ex1... 2000 3k Scarlet... wait a minute... 3k? scarlet?? 120fps...? people still whine???

Like I said.. the whole "red" world has gone crazy.

RED as a company is unique - i mean a 17.500 dollar turn in policy?... hmm maybe i can trade in my old dvx 100, for what i paid for it and get a rebate for hpx 3000??? - yeah right. they think I was crazy.

Enough Said.
 
Are really people complaining that much about the Epic?
I think most people can agree that it will be a more expensive camera, for another audience... RED One will still be fully supported, you still have a great Digital Cinema camera at an unbeatable price, and if I'm not mistaken, if there is a new sensor out, you *still* will be able to upgrade your RED One (maybe depending on the development of the Epic and the new sensor).

Don't forget that all these new builds are supposed to give you much better image quality too, next to some new features, so that's like free upgrades you are getting the whole time (expect for of course features that were promised, but are only delayed to a certain new build).

And I still can't understand the crazy idea of Jim thinking in his bed: "Hey... you know what could be nice to our customers? If they want to buy an Epic, we'll just give them the full retail price back for their Red One"...

I think most people, except for a few, aren't having much problems with the new announcements, unless I'm missing much (okay, have been reading here less the past few days, but still...)
 
AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT THE RULES?!

You're not wrong, Sidney. Red One still ties the room together.
 
Guys, get over it..

It was just 2 or 3 people who've lost their marbles over this thing.

Moving on...
 
Well no.
Epic don't seem to be too far away from a RED ONE. New MB, new Sensor,
new Processor and Graphics housed in a very similar package to RED ONE
should give this camera a lot of get up and go for about the same cost of
RED ONE production. It's just more advanced/modern hardware.
What I don't understand is the new pricing policy at more than double the
previous model.(if the $40K U.S. figure is correct). Please explain?
I've seen so many companies crash and burn in the past with this sort of
caper. They move away from the core product and it's price range, get all
carried away with overbuilding the product and distance original and potential customers in the process.
I was expecting a price jump of about $5-10K for the next model but more
than double will definitly put me out of race for RED ownership.
I'll be hiring the Epic thing if and when it hits the decks in good bug free
working condition.
Mezmo
 
mezmo said:
Well no.
Epic don't seem to be too far away from a RED ONE. New MB, new Sensor,
new Processor and Graphics housed in a very similar package to RED ONE
should give this camera a lot of get up and go for about the same cost of
RED ONE production. It's just more advanced/modern hardware.
Click to expand...

Mezmo, with all due respect, what do you know about Epics production?

Assuming that Epic uses more sophisticated/advanced components... A chip which costs $3.50 on the RED ONE, may cost $6.20 on the Epic.. Multiply that by the hundreds of different components that go into this camera and you get a doubling in cost. 5K by the way is almost a 40% increase resoloution than 4k.

And putting all that aside, its already been said, every RED gets a sensor upgrade after epic is released..
 
mezmo said:
Well no.
Epic don't seem to be too far away from a RED ONE. New MB, new Sensor,
new Processor and Graphics housed in a very similar package to RED ONE
should give this camera a lot of get up and go for about the same cost of
RED ONE production. It's just more advanced/modern hardware.
What I don't understand is the new pricing policy at more than double the
previous model.(if the $40K U.S. figure is correct). Please explain?
I've seen so many companies crash and burn in the past with this sort of
caper. They move away from the core product and it's price range, get all
carried away with overbuilding the product and distance original and potential customers in the process.
I was expecting a price jump of about $5-10K for the next model but more
than double will definitly put me out of race for RED ownership.
I'll be hiring the Epic thing if and when it hits the decks in good bug free
working condition.
Mezmo
Click to expand...

How can you criticize the price of a product you don' t really know? $40K for a 5K camera is still a bargain. Get real!

If the EPIC is out of your reach, then don't buy it. Keep your RED ONE. It's a fantastic camera. And it will be for a long time to come.
 
Hi Acehole.
Good to see you. Your right, I know nothing about Epic production costs and don't pretend to, but I just don't see a big mechanical difference between these two cameras to require a doubling in price on purchase . With the new data rates and the camera recording out the new flash drives (maybe
multiple) or a device like the S.two via RGB, Epic will be an expensive beastie to get up and running anyway.
I just see this as a major 'foot shooting' exercise on the part of RED and a thing they may live to regret.
At this new price range Epic needs to be twice the camera of RED ONE.
It has to be bug free and bullet proof leaving the factory with superior
build quality to RED ONE. Have a world wide service system and fast order
and delivery system. With high quality Glass, flash magazines or other
recording devices and a basic kit price closer to $50K US with viewfinder,
Batts etc, this is an expensive system and a whole new Ballgame for RED.
I sorta like the old concept of RED and SI. Laptops with Lensholes. Cheap
and cheerfull. It works. I think RED can still deliver everything using this
concept with more modest although obviously essential price rises.
But then I don't run the company.
In short , bin Epic and lets have RED TWO.
Cheers Mezmo
 
I am one of the original negative posters that people had a frick'n fit over and still are... and here's something very interesting for you people...
I had a couple of private messages back & forth last night with Jim. To my surprise he gave me a lot of shit for pulling my negative statements off of this forum. Called me hero for posting them, (even though he greatly disagreed) then a coward for pulling them and (to him) for following the rest of the "yes" people... I told him that I pulled my comments strictly because he seemed to take them so personal. In reality it was not the case. I told him that he was a strange cat and he agreed!...

I guess he's a mad genius to sum it all up...

I agree with Acehole... Time to move on...

People quit whining about the new models & what you want to see & people quit being such a bunch of "yes your great, yes your great" ass kiss posters....

Lets get back to the meat & potatoes of how to use all of these great new tools!

P.S. To sum it up both cameras are way underpriced... Comparatively for those of us who are use to owning / running $40K ENG HD Cameras (body only). I believe the ONE was so underpriced that it made it completely impossible to make all the renovations possible and still stay in business. Lessons learned. So yes they came out with a new model the RED TWO ooppps... I mean "EPIC" with a more reasonable price point (for all the technology & R&D in it) and gave us all a generous upgrade path for those of us who can afford it. They've also kept the ONE alive allowing many who can't pony up the $40K to still work with this very high end technology. Even more the case releasing Scarlet truly a different model for a different market need. RED ONE "Future Poof" no... but consider us all blessed (thanks to Jim) for us to be able to get our hands on any of it... Because Sony or Panasonic wouldn't let you touch it for this price for at least another 10 years & 12 models later.
 
I honestly can't get over how people are talking about fair.

We are talking about a 5K cinema camera for godsake 40 grand for a body is AMAZING.

If you don't like it go and pay $250 000 for your Sony F23 and then expect to fork out that kinda cash again once the F35 comes out, but talking about fair regarding what RED is offering us boggles my mind!!!

Most people have absolutely no reason to get an EPIC anyway, just because it has more res, and a few new features you have to ask yourself is this necessary to go out and shoot a TVC or a Music Video? Epic is for people who are making movies, for anyone else RED ONE will not only do, but be MORE than enough, hell I feel privileged to be able to shoot my new Feature on RED.

RED, EPIC and SCARLETT target three different markets. Firstly ask yourselves what you use your camera for, then ask yourself 12 months ago, how much would you have paid for a camera that was 1/4 of the quality (if not more) and then if you still feel the need to complain, go buy a Sony and stop plaguing the Red User board about money!

I'm on these boards to learn about the technical brilliance AND limitations of RED, EPIC, SCARLETT and hear about peoples experience with them, not to hear people bitch and moan about what they can or can't afford, and what they think is fair or not.

So seriously stop whining and talking about fair. If we want to start talking about fair, start asking yourself why RED should give you a $17 500 trade in on your RED. If I were Jim I'd just revoke the offer to trade in the RED ONES, that is so generous it's not funny. I can't figure out how the guy is making the $$$, it's a complete customer orientated business model -- rare! Be appreciative of it!
 
REDusers worldwide rejoice...I am just another independent filmmaker, I did not drink the cool aid, I am here at NAB and from what is cooking at RED you should have no reason to sweat, RED is taking care of everyone.

RED is making the RED one better every day and will offer upgrades as promised...oh and YES, you have the option of 22k upgrade as well....its called EPIC. Options are what the flexible producers, directors and DPs demand and there you have it. I could not be more excited for the RED world and I wanted to share that.

Best
 
big lebowski said:
How can you criticize the price of a product you don' t really know? $40K for a 5K camera is still a bargain. Get real!

If the EPIC is out of your reach, then don't buy it. Keep your RED ONE. It's a fantastic camera. And it will be for a long time to come.
Click to expand...
Hi BigL
I can criticize the price of Epic because it follows the same design prinicipal
of RED ONE, a camera that does give a good result for a $20K odd outlay.
Both cameras will capture RAW data compress it for record and process for
display.Computer based systems that just have different guts or innards.
Red's not moving away from this with things like optical viewing paths,
on-board debayer, major on-board noise reduction or processing.
Not that I can see anyway. So why the big price hike?
I'm happy to be informed, maybe you have more info?
Cheers Mezmo
 
mkt7@mac.com said:
I honestly can't get over how people are talking about fair.

We are talking about a 5K cinema camera for godsake 40 grand for a body is AMAZING.

If you don't like it go and pay $250 000 for your Sony F23 and then expect to fork out that kinda cash again once the F35 comes out, but talking about fair regarding what RED is offering us boggles my mind!!!

Most people have absolutely no reason to get an EPIC anyway, just because it has more res, and a few new features you have to ask yourself is this necessary to go out and shoot a TVC or a Music Video? Epic is for people who are making movies, for anyone else RED ONE will not only do, but be MORE than enough, hell I feel privileged to be able to shoot my new Feature on RED.

RED, EPIC and SCARLETT target three different markets. Firstly ask yourselves what you use your camera for, then ask yourself 12 months ago, how much would you have paid for a camera that was 1/4 of the quality (if not more) and then if you still feel the need to complain, go buy a Sony and stop plaguing the Red User board about money!

I'm on these boards to learn about the technical brilliance AND limitations of RED, EPIC, SCARLETT and hear about peoples experience with them, not to hear people bitch and moan about what they can or can't afford, and what they think is fair or not.

So seriously stop whining and talking about fair. If we want to start talking about fair, start asking yourself why RED should give you a $17 500 trade in on your RED. If I were Jim I'd just revoke the offer to trade in the RED ONES, that is so generous it's not funny. I can't figure out how the guy is making the $$$, it's a complete customer orientated business model -- rare! Be appreciative of it!
Click to expand...

In fact, it would be nice if this forum could be restricted to posts about technique etc, and another forum be set up for complaining, rejoicing and everything else that has nothing to do with the cameras. Get your friends and enemies somewhere else. At this rate of posting it's going to be very hard to find really useful topics between all the personal stuff
 
And another forum for people who want everything just the way it suits them.
 
mezmo said:
Hi BigL
I can criticize the price of Epic because it follows the same design prinicipal
of RED ONE, a camera that does give a good result for a $20K odd outlay.
Both cameras will capture RAW data compress it for record and process for
display.Computer based systems that just have different guts or innards.
Red's not moving away from this with things like optical viewing paths,
on-board debayer, major on-board noise reduction or processing.
Not that I can see anyway. So why the big price hike?
Click to expand...

Again: you know close to nothing about the design of the EPIC. I suppose not even RED knows everything about it - the camera is still in early development. And that's also one of the reasons why they didn't announce an exact price at this point.

So please stop whining about the price hike and wait until you hear (and see) more about the product.

mezmo said:
I'm happy to be informed, maybe you have more info?
Click to expand...

No, I don't. And that's why I don't judge the price at this point.

The only facts I know are the prices of the competitor's products.

Nuff said.
 
Nobody's whining mate,
This is a discussion forum if you haven't already noticed but if you
want to be the new member of the 'discussion police', go ahead.
Could be entering a 'world of pain' dude.
Grab a 'white russian' and settle down Lebowski.
RED ONE was built on this kind of free verbal exchange.
EPIC or Eric as I like to call it will be the same.
Mez
 
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