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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

No detachable lenses, Truly a Pro or Professionasumer?

Z

Zemper

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Can it really be pro pro cam withouit swappable lenses, perhaps with a flip, I hope Red offers some kind of option, maybe they will have it all worked out by then... Im not grouping it with the prosumers either, a new class seems to emerge out of Reds red dust... Professionasumer.

Is the lens to small is that the issue? Give us a smaller lens mount, although Om sure if there is to be only one lens on Jims precious Scarlet it will be one perfectly suited lens for the application

Still Im not down on it just yet, I want to reserve one, I love it with or without lens support, however I would love to hear whats gonna be going on in regards to audio...
 
If you go out and look at the shoulder-mount video cameras used by photojournalists, I think most of them have interchangeable lenses.

But I don't get the impression that most of those zooms are ever removed from the camera.

So effectively, they pay the size and weight penalty of interchangeable lenses, but they don't actually use the interchange feature!

I think Jim noticed that fact and decided that for run and gun style shooting, the fixed-lens tradeoff was worth it. It also meant an enormously lower price point - with interchangeable lenses that same camera would be $3,500 for the camera and $1,500 for the glass.

I think it's a little sad that people look at some specific features of these cameras and act as though Jim was a sinner and he owes them penance for doing such an awful thing. I suppose I'm biased, because Jim did the right thing for me and people similar to me - I could afford $3,000 for a camera but would have a tough time with $5,000, let alone the $10,000 a more macho version would have cost.

Scarlet looks like a cool camera at a price I could afford and so right now I feel happy about everything save the ship date :-).

D
 
David Dennis said:
I think Jim noticed that fact and decided that for run and gun style shooting, the fixed-lens tradeoff was worth it. It also meant an enormously lower price point - with interchangeable lenses that same camera would be $3,500 for the camera and $1,500 for the glass.
D
Click to expand...

I'd rather pay $5k with interchangeable lens capability than $3k without it, but I guess I'm a fool.
 
That is a good point... When I get around to buy one of these buggers I'll probably won't actually have benefited the interchangeability. But I'm just tired of put on extra glass for extra wide angles or extra long lenses.

Also I'm not that big of a fan of the whole 35mm adaptor-thing either... miniscule DOF ain't that of a deal-breaker since I honestly have trouble finding good movies that actually use it to make the look look better.

3000 dollares for a cam that provides 3 times as many pixels as my HV20? in 120 fps? In friggin' redcode RAW!? To solid state? I don't care about changing the lens... I don't care about audio-inputs... as long as the wide angle is wide enough with the of-course-soon-to-come wide-angle-adaptor I'll happily shoot MOS or with secondary sound-recording...

I'll put the money saved from lenses on upgrading my workstation so I'll be able to actually edit and output this sickly big images in 25fps...

EDIT: And if the fixed zoom lens is there to stay... then please! give me a lens that actually has zoom & focus-rings that actually connects physically to the lens mechanism... I'm sick and tired of not being able to do any kind of follow-focus because of the focus-ring just spins regardless of the actual lens... and the small zoom-stick that sticks out of the Sony Z1 camera-lens is something I really like.
 
I have an arsenal of nikon glass it would have been nice to utilize. now it looks as if we will be shopping on image degrading wide adapters that are still in the $1k price range. hopefully the lens is super wide to start out with.
 
If it had interchangeable lenses I would say it would be competing with the Red One.

Jim got this one right and made a camera that has the quality that was not avaible in the sub 5k market. After 5k there are tons of options from JVC, Cannon, Sony.

Scarlet stands all alone at 3k. There is nothing that can match it. This is the same way that Redone came in. Though I imagine after accessories one will be looking at closer to the 4k mark.

I am so pumped right now and the wait is not an issue as I need save a little more cash so 2009 is perfect for me.
 
Zemper said:
a new class seems to emerge out of Reds red dust... Professionasumer.
Click to expand...

Or maybe Confessionals :-). I would be exactly the guy for something like scarlet. Too professional for all the HDV crap but not professional enough to handle a red one. I sometimes like auto-stuff, but want all the manual options as well. BUT – interchangeable lenses and 4 Channel audio would be a must for a cam of my taste!
 
This sounds like a great camera at an amazing price! I have no doubts this will have use in professional applications. I agree with the other poster about the ridiculously miniscule DOF that some people keeping hammering on. Going 1.2 DOF on every shot gets old. Most 'real' flicks don't use such shallow DOF to that degree. I don't understand this craze about going so shallow? And those wanting interchangeable lenses and full sensors, etc., don't they have One camera that does that with another on the way? This Scarlet is not in that category and some of us appreciate this niche. Obviously not all of us, but plenty enough to make a camera for those of us who do. Hey, I'm just voicing my opinion like everyone else. I think there's a camera out there for pretty much everyone... nothing perfect, but it's getting better and better out there all the time! Good luck to everyone with their projects, the future is lookin' GOOD!
 
David Dennis said:
If you go out and look at the shoulder-mount video cameras used by photojournalists, I think most of them have interchangeable lenses.

But I don't get the impression that most of those zooms are ever removed from the camera.

So effectively, they pay the size and weight penalty of interchangeable lenses, but they don't actually use the interchange feature!
Click to expand...

Maybe true but none of those cameras use Nikon or Canon mounts. BIG difference.
 
Jaadgy, just to clarify, I wasn't calling anybody a fool.

I was simply saying that the camera is likely to suit my needs perfectly and it's nice to see a camera that fits my way of doing things.

You have a different way of doing things and I think that means you're more in the Red One than the Scarlet market. I have absolutely nothing against you or your brain power ... just trying to say there are other markets and obviously Jim is pursuing both of them with a nearly unprecedented vigour and flair.

D
 
David Dennis said:
If you go out and look at the shoulder-mount video cameras used by photojournalists, I think most of them have interchangeable lenses.

But I don't get the impression that most of those zooms are ever removed from the camera.

So effectively, they pay the size and weight penalty of interchangeable lenses, but they don't actually use the interchange feature!

D
Click to expand...

Photojournalists have more use for convenience than quality. Their output will end up broadcast with all manner of compression artifacts, so the mediocre quality of the zoom lens will not be all that obvious.
 
No let me see...

Scarlet 3K....

1. 2/3" Mysterium X Sensor - Expected - now fact. Great!

2. 3K Resolution - better than expected! So that actually means 3K CMOS Bayer and a clean 2K out of it - Superb. And that's the whole point with 3K Scarlet and 5K EPIC - to get clean 2K and 4K out of the cams.

Otherwise: 3K and 5K for delivery - what's that?!

The point is - clean 2K and 4K DeBayered.

3. 1-120 FPS (180FPS BURST) - This is MUCH better than expected! OMG.

4. UP TO 100 MB/SEC REDCODE RAW AND RGB RECORDING TO DUAL COMPACT FLASH

Another very nice surprise. Yes, I was surprised :).

5. ~ 3000 $ Price for the body [+LCD??] - Now that's the killer !!! [if it's true]

Changes the game completely and maybe saves me [us] from the sword of Damocles that a huge bank loan for a RED ONE is.

BUT !... I have a BUT. And not a small one:

6. Fixed lens.

That's a disappointment.

Please, Master Jim, make it 6000 $ but make it compatible with 16mm and\or Nikon glass.

Save us from 35mm adapters inconveniences.

Scarlet sounds like she's almost the perfect girl for me.

If only I could change... you know.. her lens :).

This is important and it could ruin the dream.

You gave us the sensor, you gave us RAW, you gave us all.... but the ability to look at the world with a new and different set of "eyes".

Anyway - Amazing! All the other specs ARE a very pleasant surprise.

Please, Master Jim, give us 16mm glass.

And win our even bigger love and respect for all eternity.

:)
 
Old, I think of myself as more a photojournalist than any other kind of shooter and so this suits me very well. Doesn't mean it has to suit you well, just that there is more than one type of person out there who loves creating film/video, and they could use different equipment. Scarlet's more for me than you. I hope that's OK.

You have a camera that was made for you, the purist, in the RED ONE. Now RED has a camera made for me, the non-purist.

Surely there is room for both of us in the world?

PS Alas, for both of us, the end product of our hard work to create as near-perfect images as we can winds up being seen on 10 year old TVs running through a digital cable system with all kinds of errors and distortions. Don't think that's exclusive to documentary filmmakers.
 
I read in one of these threads where someone suggested that if the scarlet had a Nikon mount, it would compete with the red one. I just wanted to comment and say that I disagree. If scarlet had a Nikon/Canon mount but no PL options I think it would be a perfect compliment for the red one while not competing. Serious users will still opt for the One and PL glass which is what the One is targeted for.

... my 2 cents anyway
 
David Dennis said:
Old, I think of myself as more a photojournalist than any other kind of shooter and so this suits me very well. Doesn't mean it has to suit you well, just that there is more than one type of person out there who loves creating film/video, and they could use different equipment. Scarlet's more for me than you. I hope that's OK.

You have a camera that was made for you, the purist, in the RED ONE. Now RED has a camera made for me, the non-purist.

Surely there is room for both of us in the world?
Click to expand...

Very well said David. I couldn't agree more.

I kind of figured it would have a fixed lens (it was part of my prediction) in order to make the camera small enough. Plus a swappable lens really does put it too close to the Red One. So I'm not entirely surprised. This camera far surpasses my needs especially at this price. I'll be the first one in line come reservation day. :biggrin:
 
Definitely odd how audio isn't available, though I'm sure it'll turn up soon. And with all the negative energy about the fixed lens issue, I'm sure that will end up changing as well. Many downs and ups on this camera that even them self out, but the biggest downer is the fixed lens.
 
do2 said:
Or maybe Confessionals :-). I would be exactly the guy for something like scarlet. Too professional for all the HDV crap but not professional enough to handle a red one. I sometimes like auto-stuff, but want all the manual options as well. BUT – interchangeable lenses and 4 Channel audio would be a must for a cam of my taste!
Click to expand...

I totally agree .. interchangeable lenses and 4-channel audio = must-have and worth an extra $1000 if need-be!
 
Why on earth would you want to put a Nikon full frame 35mm lens onto a 2/3" size sensor? You will be able to get a much better lens performance and speed from a lens designed for a smaller format. If you want a 35mm size sensor, you should go Red One. You can't have the cake and eat it too.

Scarlet would have been so much more attractive to me if it were to produce 3K in a sensor size that matches 3K windowed on the Mysterium. Somewhere between Super16 and 35mm depth of field with fast, light lenses...

But for under 3K$ impossible...
 
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