Arri LDS Metadata on Red – PLEASE

[Bob Torrance]

Lds

Lds

...or was it LSD.

Start of thread;

Could you look into putting Arri LDS metadata on Red?

Hum, Lets see.... rotate - ah, arri.....ah.....

"Okay, we'll look into it."

End of thread. (short version)

Bob

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Possible scale orientation solution

Possible scale orientation solution

First, I appreciate the fact that RED is continuing to consider how to support LDS. (Thanks Jim) For many of us, use of ARRI/Zeiss primes is how we think a shot. Even if it takes some more development time for the data to be fully compatible and recorded, there are other uses for this feature.
Wired or wireless focus assist for one. With shallow DOF, seeing a data display with this info displayed is a valuable tool. (ARRI LDD-FP)

About the lens orientation being 90 degrees off; RED has made it clear that they will not provide a second set of holes/connectors for interfacing to the data connectors. OK

For consideration, the ARRI Master Primes allow you to "swap out" the focus ring between metric and imperial scales. Might ARRI be convinced to manufacture an alternate focus ring that was keyed 90 degrees off? same numbers, just offset by 90 degrees. Of course, ID these new focus scales with an etched red ring or other distinguishing mark. This would fix the visibility of the distance number for a focus puller.
Since the engraved focus mark on the front of the lens would be off, a removable metallic tape or clamp-on offset could be used to remedy. (Remember the clamp-on rings for the Angineux lenses years ago?) Metallic tape with two index marks would be the better method, only one product # would be required (all ARRI Master Primes have a uniform front diameter of 114mm).

This would be a far less expensive solution than changing the ARRI lens mount orientation which an earlier post mentioned was cost prohibitive. With over 3000 potential users to start, an offset focus ring might just make economic sense.
I plan on pursuing this at NAB to see if it might be possible. Perhaps if many of us ask?

Of course, we need to ensure that the LDS itself will be recognized by RED to make it attractive to the largest possible set of users.

Thoughts?

 

[Greg M]

Yes, I think Arri has already offered this thru Mitch at Abel Cine...check with him.

 

[Mitch Gross]

The idea of altering the lens was ultimately dismissed as radically cost prohibitive. This solution would certainly add to the cost of the lens, but by how much I couldn't say. I'll pose it to the folks at Arri, but don't expect a reply anytime soon as everyone is gearing up for NAB.

 

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Focus Ring swap modification

Focus Ring swap modification

To clarify: In these photos, the focus ring on a Master Prime is being removed. ARRI designed in the ability to change between metric and imperial markings so one set of lenses could be used with your choice of markings.
Part of my suggestion was that a machine run of "Red compliant" focus rings could be a solution.
It would not modify the lens itself - only a part that has already been designed as a modular piece. The internal machining of the ring would not be affected - only the relative position of the etchings on the outside.

Manufacturing one or fifty would be cost prohibitive. But at what point would the economics turn? I'll be posing that question at NAB. Wouldn't dream of bothering them this week.

 

[Mark Pedersen]

To clarify: In these photos, the focus ring on a Master Prime is being removed. ARRI designed in the ability to change between metric and imperial markings so one set of lenses could be used with your choice of markings.
Part of my suggestion was that a machine run of "Red compliant" focus rings could be a solution.
It would not modify the lens itself - only a part that has already been designed as a modular piece. The internal machining of the ring would not be affected - only the relative position of the etchings on the outside.

Manufacturing one or fifty would be cost prohibitive. But at what point would the economics turn? I'll be posing that question at NAB. Wouldn't dream of bothering them this week.

OK, since I posted this thread, I purchased as set of 10 LDS Ultra Primes. Guilt as charged. I love em. So I'm motivated to see this happen. But as someone who wants/needs the flexibility to rent the lenses out to others who may be shooting with F23's or F35s. or film cameras, I really don't want a "Red only LDS lens set".

IMHO, that's the wrong approach. Rotating the PL mount on the Red is a much more reasonable and logical approach, since it would only impact the cameras on which you WANT to have LDS capability. Granted, it would limit your use of i/ compatible lenses, but that's a choice you make. Or, better yet, it would be great to be able to rotate the PL mount to either position given your needs. (no different in theory, than going back and forth between Nikon and PL mounts). Just need a longer wiring harness.

While I respect Red's position to not want to rotate the lenses for their standard production run, it certainly seems viable to offer either a kit or a modified PL LDS mount (again, just like the Nikon mount concept) for those who want it.

Let's face it, all that's needed is to rotate the PL 90 degrees, maintain the electronic connections, and bingo! All is good... assuming any software compatibility issues are dealt with on the software side.

Glad to know the interest is out there for LDS support.

Jim? Can we talk at NAB about it?

Oh, and I'm still very interested in that 18-85 Red zoom BTW... And probably the 300mm...

Thanks,

Mark

 

[roryhinds]

LDS support is high on my list too.

The more lens options we have the better.

Actually its one of the main reasons for holding back on buying Ultra Primes.
I don't see what the big deal is for extending the wiring and having 2 options on where to place the contacts.

The rest should be software based so I guess it would be down to Arri to allow RED to implement the code.

I'm excited about the RED Primes although do need a consistent T stop over the range.