Is RED ready for Scarlet? Is RED going to upset RED ONE buyers?

[Peter Majtan]

I don't want to be the "devil's advocate" here, but is Jim and his team READY for Scarlet? If Scarlet will turned out to be anything like what we expect, i believe that RED will be unable to provide sufficient supplies for a very long time, if ever...

Kind of like what is happening now with iPhone - Apple admitted that they "have underestimated the demand" for the product. But we don't have to go to Cupertino for examples - look at what is happening to RED ONE. How many of You out there have ordered RED ONE and are still waiting in a line?

Better yet - How many of You out there have ordered RED ONE before knowing anything about Scarlet and now You wish You did not and rather would like to buy Scarlet?

Now that is a question...



More defined poll options :

1. Person who ordered RED ONE, does not have it yet and would not likely choose Scarlet over RED ONE if he had a chance...

2. Person who ordered RED ONE, does not have it yet and would likely choose Scarlet over RED ONE if he had a chance...

3. Person who ordered RED ONE, does have it (CONGRATS!!!) and would not likely choose Scarlet over RED ONE if he had a chance...

4. Person who ordered RED ONE, does have it (CONGRATS!!!) and would likely choose Scarlet over RED ONE if he had a chance...

5. Person who never ordered RED ONE, does know about Scarlet and still is likely to go for RED ONE...

6. Person who never ordered RED ONE, does know about Scarlet and still not likely to go for RED ONE given that Scarlet is coming soon...

Please NOTE that this poll does not include the option to buy Scarlet as a companion to RED ONE or vice versa...
This poll is intended for those who would (or would not) choose between the two...

 

[John Caballero]

It is going to be a mighty big task for Red to fulfill the orders if the camera turns out to be a technological knock-out even at up to a $10,000.00 price tag. From the experience of having to wait for my HVX way after it was introduced I am not holding my breath expecting a Scarlet for a while.
But who knows, they might be cranking them out in China or Taiwan as we speak. We will know soon enough.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Hope not...

Hope not...

But who knows, they might be cranking them out in China or Taiwan as we speak. We will know soon enough.

I hope not - this is exactly what I am afraid off. The (most-likely) demand for Scarlet could force RED to outsource the manufacturing to "cheap labor" in Asia - reflecting on the final quality of the product...

Having said that - I need to shoot myself in a foot (twice):

A) That is not to say that all Asian labor is low quality - there are certainly some great quality products coming out from Asia, as they is plenty of "American or EU made crap" out there...

B) RED could use the demand to justify government (or private/public) funding to create much-needed jobs in USA to boost the economy by constructing new manufacturing facility to handle the production of both RED ONE and Scarlet and other shades of red in the future... This is however unlikely to happen fast enough...

 

[John Caballero]

It is such a difficult situation with the manufacturing in the U.S.A. and the labor costs. I believe Caterpillar products by example are produced here but they have very pricy items. It is sad but a very bleak reality.

 

[John Caballero]

I was looking at my HVX and it is indeed manufactured in Japan itself. I wonder how is the labor cost situation there and if the Japanese government works out some kind of special deals to help its manufacturers as well as the working citizens. After all Canon, Sony, Panasonic, Nikon and many others are all Japanese products.

 

[Peter Majtan]

I have lived in Japan for almost 3 years and had pleasure to worked on high-end R&D projects, that allowed me to visit both Sony and Canon R&D and manufacturing plants. The reality is that lot of the "labor" is highly automated, resulting in great quality (machines don't usually make mistakes or get tired...) and economical solution in the long run...

PS: The average "minimum" salary is ¥ 300000,- (about $ 3000,- USD) per month plus double of month's salary once a year as a bonus.
Salaries in excess of ¥ 500000,- (about $ 5000,- USD) per month are normal for skilled labor...
This however needs to be placed in a picture together with the extremely high-cost of living... (which does not change the fact that the labor is expensive! It only makes some a little less jealous...)

 

[Bruce Allen]

Funny thread... you guys do know Red One is manufactured in Singapore, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, Apple's "we underestimated demand" excuse is possibly just a cover for the "real" reason they're running out of stock - because they're prepping a 3G model.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[John Caballero]

Technology is advancing so much it is affecting life in so many ways. What are people with less education going to do to earn a decent living? Manufacturing was a place for many to earn their money and put food in their family table and it is even been replaced by automation and robots. Very sad.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Funny thread... you guys do know Red One is manufactured in Singapore, right? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, Apple's "we underestimated demand" excuse is possibly just a cover for the "real" reason they're running out of stock - because they're prepping a 3G model.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

A) The point is that the huge demand could justify local manufacturing...

B) That has been the perception of many, the real reason is the demand:

"Claims that Apple's sudden lack of iPhones is sign of an imminent upgrade to 3G are unrealistic, Royal Bank analyst Mike Abramsky said on Thursday in a note to investors.
Instead, Apple is more likely to have simply underestimated demand. Investigations suggest that the iPhone maker dropped its build rate by as much as 50 percent in the first quarter of 2008, assuming that demand would drop sharply after the holiday; that sales rate remained steady, Abramsky says. He also notes that Apple has had a recurring difficulty in estimating iPhone demand, including sales of unlocked devices."

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...e_vs_big_apple_t_mobiles_99_euro_iphones.html


C) This is anyway NOT the focus of this thread...

 

[jimhare]

Shouldn't there be a poll item for:

Ordered RED, will consider ordering Scarlet as well

This is what I would select.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Shouldn't there be a poll item for:

Ordered RED, will consider ordering Scarlet as well

This is what I would select.

As I have noted just bellow the detailed option description:

"Please NOTE that this poll does not include the option to buy Scarlet as a companion to RED ONE or vice versa...
This poll is intended for those who would (or would not) choose between the two..."

 

[John Caballero]

According to DV Magazines' NAB special issue Scarlet will start selling at the show.

 

[Ethan Cooper]

I read the DV thing last night too, and I think they're wrong. In the same article they said that Red was going to let the initial 100 Red One owners have first dibs on Scarlet, but didn't Jim do away with that notion early on? Am I just making that up?
________
Weed

 

[John Caballero]

I guess it adds fuel to the speculation. Thanks God its only a week.

 

[planet e]

According to DV Magazines' NAB special issue Scarlet will start selling at the show.

i think that is wrong, too...in the original announcement, jim said a prototype would be at NAB. it would be great if that has changed, but i just don't see DV magazine as the mouthpiece for announcing such a change. more likely, it is a mis-perception, but RED has been loaded with surprises, so who knows?

 

[John Caballero]

I guess things could change at any time with Red. They could have a first batch of cameras ready by NAB to then be backed up for two years with a million orders.

 

[Bill Anderson]

I'm running with the " proffessional- NOT PROSUMER" tag; consider the guys that are designing Scarlet. What does "not prosumer" mean to them?
They're not CEO's interested in mimicking to make a few bucks when the can invent and make a few bucks. They enjoy this schtick- although I can imagine there are days when "enjoy" might not describe their feelings. So when they say, "not prosumer" we should at least consider the RED end of the spectrum, and not the HV-whatever end.

Even if Scarlet came in at 2k quality and got in the RED image quality ballpark, it's still not going to cannibalize RED because RED's geared beautifully to the future of pro style productions and post.
Super16 lived in harmony with 35mm.
How many filmmakers that required the abilities of a RED system, (and could afford it) opted instead for a Canon XLH1? my guess would be "none". And even if Scarlet trounces the "prosumer" Canon, that ratio will still hold true. Scarlet will promote more RED addicts, over the long haul. My Guess.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

The choices do not cover me. Have RED ONE, happily waiting for Scarlet and will probably buy it if it suits my needs.

 

[Zack CC]

I'm running with the " proffessional- NOT PROSUMER" tag; consider the guys that are designing Scarlet. What does "not prosumer" mean to them?
They're not CEO's interested in mimicking to make a few bucks when the can invent and make a few bucks. They enjoy this schtick- although I can imagine there are days when "enjoy" might not describe their feelings. So when they say, "not prosumer" we should at least consider the RED end of the spectrum, and not the HV-whatever end.

Even if Scarlet came in at 2k quality and got in the RED image quality ballpark, it's still not going to cannibalize RED because RED's geared beautifully to the future of pro style productions and post.
Super16 lived in harmony with 35mm.
How many filmmakers that required the abilities of a RED system, (and could afford it) opted instead for a Canon XLH1? my guess would be "none". And even if Scarlet trounces the "prosumer" Canon, that ratio will still hold true. Scarlet will promote more RED addicts, over the long haul. My Guess.

I for one, as a poor but overly ambitious film student, was considering purchasing an XLH1, being a fan of Canon. As soon as I found out about RED, my plans changed. Still, Scarlet, while it could easily turn out to NOT be what people assumed it will, may very well afford my friends and I the option...sooner, rather than later, without external financing... :biggrin:

If only wishing made it so...

 

[Peter Majtan]

I've started this thread based on the following assumption:

A) Scarlet is going to be PRO (not prosumer) at 2K resolution (as trademarked by RED)
B) Considering Canon's cameras (the preferred choice of indy FM) are rated "prosumer" it is going to be better than them - and that is hell-of-a-camera!
C) Is not going to compete with RED ONE - therefore is not going to be anywhere near to RED ONE's price tag - we could realistically assume between 5K ~ 8K (but RED can surprise us by cost bellow 5K! - this would actually give another meaning to "pocket" camera - meaning that You could afford one out of the "pocket"...)

Now if Scarlet has all the three above (and there is no reason to believe it won't) - it is going to be an absolute bestseller (especially if priced bellow 5K!!!)...

Now RED might have few ready for sale at NAB (but I doubt that), but it for sure does not have sufficient stocks to fill the expected demand. I think they are greatly underestimating what is going to happen...

Given the backlog on RED ONE's - there is going to be a lot of upset people...

Also there is one thing to consider (why I've also asked the original question):

In the current world technology is developing at rocket pace with many camera manufactures introducing new models every 6 months or at least once a year. Now someone like RED announces RED ONE (last NAB), people go ahead to pay the deposit to get in the very long line and wait for over 6 months for the "baby" to arrive. Before that happens - a new camera is on the market and some might have rather chosen the new option (as You can see from the poll)...

This is the real problem! Is RED really ready to handle the expected demand for Scarlet while improving delivery of RED ONE? If not - they might loose more then they think...

The biggest assets RED team has (for now) is their (R)evolutional thinking, PRO image and great reputation...

Lets hope this won't change...