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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

help pls noisy shadows

D

David Groundwater

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just picked up camera and am about to get on boat in philippines....

i've been playing with the camera and there seems to be an awful lot of noise in shadows - i've done a black shade whatnot and am using build 13.

is there anything else i can try - i don't think it's good enough to use as is.

also, quicktime proxies are half garbled since i did the black shading - go figure. i did the black shading because it was looking noisy but i don't think it helped much.

could it just be a problem with redcine (he says grasping at straws)?

cheers,

david
 
Quicktime proxies might look half garbled because you shot 4k at 16:9, which is not supported in quicktime yet.

It is easy to get noisy footage if you are underexposing and trying to correct in RedCine. Also 1/4 res or 1/2 res previews tend to look a lot more noisy than 4k scaled to 2k clip. Be sure to set the process tab to "full" in the output options.

Build 15 doesn't help with noise.
 
sander kamp said:
Quicktime proxies might look half garbled because you shot 4k at 16:9, which is not supported in quicktime yet.

It is easy to get noisy footage if you are underexposing and trying to correct in RedCine. Also 1/4 res or 1/2 res previews tend to look a lot more noisy than 4k scaled to 2k clip. Be sure to set the process tab to "full" in the output options.

Build 15 doesn't help with noise.
Click to expand...

thanks sander,

yeah i figured out the QT thing, but the noise is just terrible.

if i playback at full quality and resolution in redcine (albeit at about 1fps) you can clearly see the same bit of the picture changing chroma and luminance from frame to frame.

i can't believe this is normal and i'm sure the shot's not underexposed - i haven't boosted the exposure in redcine or whatever.

does this sound like a problem with the camera's encoder maybe?

david
 
I need to know a bit more about the shot and your settings in RedCine. Daylight, night, tungsten, iso, 4k, 2k, varispeed...?

If you shoot in daylight at 320 iso, well exposed and no strange settings in RedCine and your camera is noisy than there's something wrong.

However, shooting high speed, at night, under tungsten lighting and with high iso things can get nasty pretty easy. That doesn't mean the camera is bad, but it is very easy to push things too hard in RedCine. Boosting mid levels with curves could effectively be the same as pushing the iso 1 or 2 stops. Crushing blacks and turning noise reduction on is than your only option in RedCine.
 
dmig said:
if i playback at full quality and resolution in redcine (albeit at about 1fps)
Click to expand...

Render to 2K or 1080P with noise reduction and see what you get before getting too nervous. Then you'll have a full debayer and a more realistic look at what you've got.
 
Speaking of noise, should the preview image be noisy as sh!#. Just learning the menus with the body cap on, and the preview image is crawling all over the place with FPN and chroma noise in the black.
 
what was your white balance set at?

a lot of times if you hit the user 1 key and auto balance you will get a lot of tint added to your metadata and thus more noise...
 
kenn michael said:
No, the preview image should not be noisy.
Click to expand...

With the body cap on? The preview image is noisy on my camera if going to a monitor that is not crushing the blacks when the body cap is on. It's a 720P image from the 1K stream of a 4K camera. It's a really nice video tap essentially.
 
I think I'm talking about what joelnet is referring to. I was just sitting here looking at menus with the body cap on. ISO 320, 5000K. So the output is just the black level of the sensor. And on a Dell computer monitor, through HDMI, the image is pretty noisy at a standard viewing angle. If I tilt the monitor down, with the viewing angle causing reduced contrast on the monitor, the image is super noisy and if I tilt it up, crushing the blacks, it's not really noisy. I know that the severity of the noise is caused by the viewing angle limitations of the monitor, but I'm just surprised that there is so much underlying base noise.
 
When I shoot at 320, 5000K there is always some noise in the shadows.
If you expose properly for your subject, there is no noise on the subject, but the shadows always have a fine digital noise in them.

I have black shaded until I'm blue in the face, but it is still there. I can only assume that it is part of the sensor's makeup. It's a little bit disappointing frankly, I was lead to believe that the sensor was almost noiseless at 320ASA.

A give way about the base level of noise is when I turn the focus overlay on with the body/lens cap on. The white focus line 'wiggles' (albeit very small peaks), if the blacks were noiseless the line would hardly be moving.

Anyway here is a 4K still (from a macro shoot) at ASA 320 5000K, properly exposed for the front leaves, s-curve applied in REDCINE. Build 14.
Look in the out of focus shadows and you'll see the noise I'm talking about.
http://naturalscinema.com/001374.tif
Any one tell me if this is normal, or if I'm just too damn picky?
 
Ed, That looks pretty good to me. Like the noise from a typical dSLR. Not unpleasant, kinda like film grain. Now, I don't know how it looks in motion, but that still I'd be very happy with.

I'll see if I can photograph what I'm seeing on my monitor, as a reference. It's much uglier than what you're seeing in the shadows there.
 
parisrem said:
Ed, That looks pretty good to me. Like the noise from a typical dSLR. Not unpleasant, kinda like film grain. Now, I don't know how it looks in motion, but that still I'd be very happy with.

I'll see if I can photograph what I'm seeing on my monitor, as a reference. It's much uglier than what you're seeing in the shadows there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd said ED's pic looks good. My belief is that's less noise than you'd see film grain on the same shot.

And I definitely have a very noisy picture via the HDMI preview out to a Dell monitor when all black. But frankly, in lower light I can see all kinds of shadow noise on the preview monitor as well.

The reality check for me was in my first set of tests I saw a lot of mosquito noise in the lower mids (especially in bokeh - which is presume must be brutal for showing noise) and we output it to 1080P and played it on a decent 1080P TV and it looked good.

In the end this camera is a combo of what the you choose to let the sensor expose and how you (and RED software) process what you exposed.

The end result of those 2 things is RED. That's why I think you need to take tests all the way to final output before you get concerned.
 
try 5600, see if that helps
 
Just wondering if these RGB histogram outputs are typical for other people with the lens cap on.

48_1206848008.jpg


Cheers,

Dave
 
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