Red Nikon mount review...

[ericyoung]

awesome! been waiting for this, thanks Elvin!

Think it's EVIN, no "L"! :biggrin:

 

[Michael Grugal]

Eh???

I'm confused too.

 

[caseyhayward]

35mm still lenses cannot not cover the full sensor, as 35mm still film is much larger than 35mm movie film.

Stephen

By this logic a 35mm still lens would cover more area than a 35mm cine lens. Am I wrong?

 

[Joel Kaye]

That means there is some slight play in the mount when the rotational direction of a focus turn changes. This is no different from a Nikon DSLR body and so not anything out of spec for the mount it's self.

This is a locking mount, right? If not, that's a real problem.

This is definitely NOT my experience with Nikon DSLR's. My mount is rock solid. With a very firm grip I don't have 1mm of play. My RedRock Micro mount was rock solid too.

Now if you're just talking about old crappy lenses that slip on everything that's one thing - but I really haven't run into that much myself. I have seen focus rings with play in them. That's more of a lens to lens thing.

 

[Joel Kaye]

just wondering what if using these lenses still uses the full sensor? are they 35mm equivalent when using this mount?

Still lenses cover much more area than a Cine lens therefore you are actually shooting through the sweet spot of a full frame still lens and will encounter no vignetting and less barrel distortion than the same lens on a full frame SLR.

The question then becomes one of resolving power. I doubt we'll see a problem there.

 

[Dave Neathery]

Evin Grant wrote:
"Changing mounts is a little daunting, It is not really that complicated it just takes a lot of care. I tried the balloon thing that Doug's video showed but I think it got in the way too much and ended up just using the lens tissue bundled up alone.
The wiring harness is a bitch to get flush in the channel and I had to reattach the PL mount twice to get it back to flush but over all it worked out well."

I have changed the mount several times now, and I found that it is very easy if you do two things:
1. Have the camera level, or better yet, pointed some what down. This is easy if the camera is on a tripod or dolly. Then you don't have any concerns about droping things inside.
2. Put one or two turns on the 4 wire harness and then lay the plug on it's side in the groove. This makes a tight fit which will allow you to put a tiny bit of tension on the wires to keep them in the groove. At that point, you've got it made.
If that description is not clear, let me know. The anti-seize is a good idea. I don't think they make helicoils small enough for these screws, and Aluminum against steel... well, you know how well that works. It would be nice to have pressed in steel or stainless inserts. But then who ever thought these screws would wind up being run in and out so often?

 

[Florian Stadler]

Still lenses cover much more area than a Cine lens therefore you are actually shooting through the sweet spot of a full frame still lens

True but there are also disadvantages over glass that is specifically designed for the image size recorded.
You'll find lenses covering a smaller image circle faster and sharper.
Also with the bigger image circle you are dealing with extra stray light bouncing around. I don't know if this is a problem with the RED anymore, but I know some Super16mm cameras had to have have parts around the gate painted matte black to work with 35mm covering lenses.

 

[Jonas Nyström]

35mm still lenses cannot not cover the full sensor, as 35mm still film is much larger than 35mm movie film.

Stephen

Quite the opposite my dear. The RED sensor is same/smaller than the Canon 1.6 crop DSLR. You can even use Canon EF-S lenses.

 

[Kenn Michael]

I think everyone (including myself initially) missed Stephen's double negative...

He said:

"35mm still lenses cannot NOT cover the full sensor...."

I read it as 35mm still lenses cannot cover the sensor, but that's not what he meant!

 

[Jonas Nyström]

I think everyone (including myself initially) missed Stephen's double negative...

He said:

"35mm still lenses cannot NOT cover the full sensor...."

I read it as 35mm still lenses cannot cover the sensor, but that's not what he meant!

Sorry I cannot not follow not, no...

 

[Kenn Michael]

Ah, so you understand!

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

Yes. . . sorry about the double negative, but that's professor speak coming out again.

To reiterate, as several folks have pointed out my correct intention, 35mm still lenses will ALWAYS cover the RED's senser, since a piece of 35mm film from a still camera is MUCH larger than a 35mm negative on a movie camera and RED's S35 sensor.

Sorry about the confusion.

Stephen

 

[Evin Grant]

Evin,

When you mention this step:

What RED tools are available for setting the FFD? Do they have something available now? Could you elaborate?

Focus Assist, zoom in and Focus overlay.

This is a locking mount, right? If not, that's a real problem.

This is definitely NOT my experience with Nikon DSLR's. My mount is rock solid. With a very firm grip I don't have 1mm of play. My RedRock Micro mount was rock solid too.

The Red Nikon mount is as solid as my new D3, but compared to PL there is still some play (probably less than 1mm) but none the less it exists becasue the only thing keeping it rotationally secure is a small metal pin.

Now if you're just talking about old crappy lenses that slip on everything that's one thing - but I really haven't run into that much myself. I have seen focus rings with play in them. That's more of a lens to lens thing.

Those two issues are my biggest concern because many people have ben buying used glass on e-bay and are not going to understand why there pulls look crappy.

 

[Andrew Walker]

I don't know if this is a problem with the RED anymore, but I know some Super16mm cameras had to have have parts around the gate painted matte black to work with 35mm covering lenses.

Funny you bring this up because the Red is matte back inside the lens mount area.

 

[Joel Kaye]

Those two issues are my biggest concern because many people have ben buying used glass on e-bay and are not going to understand why there pulls look crappy.

Fair enough... it'll be fun to see how it goes. Yeah, some lenses are definitely built better than others and I really think we'll just have to do some testing and trading until we have a set we like.

It is possible to buy new manual focus lenses as well.

Maybe I'll end up with a set of Leica's like Sanjin.

 

[Douglas Underdahl]

Nikon mount

Nikon mount

Thanks Evin.

Yes, it's true - Nikon and Leica and Canon EF and Minolta are "spring loaded" mounts, meaning there are three little springs holding the lens tight to the surface of the flange. This is called bayonet mount. Now PL and BNCR and PV and Aaton and Cinema Products use a clamping ring that you turn clockwise to hold the lens to the surface of the flange. I think some call this a breech mount. The old Canon FD was also a breech mount, I believe.

Why not make all lens mounts breech? Well, it takes three hands, or two hands and a tripod, or two hands and your left and right thighs, to swap a breech lens! One hand on the lens, one hand on the locking ring, and a third hand or tripod or strong thighs holding the camera.

So to make it easier to change lenses with two hands, still cameras went with bayonet mount.

The Nikon mount is pretty strong, but if your lenses are old and worn, there could be some movement. Also, if your lenses are heavy, like telephotos and zooms, then you should use the RED UNIVERSAL MOUNT on the rails or equivalent and a lens support to clamp the non-moving part of the lens barrel to keep the lens steady, especially while you zoom or pull focus.

I'm working on a nifty, super strong, lighting quick lens support. Hope to test it next week. Very inexpensive, too. This should make Nikon mounted lenses really stable, so you won't get looseness causing frame shifts when you zoom or pull focus during a take.

Now as for swapping mounts, I think the "shave the connector and turn it sideways and stuff the cable at the other end back into the camera" is probably the best solution toward solving the problem of having the cable sticking out and making mount swapping more difficult. I'll check this out and if all goes well, I'll do an other video of this. I have to wait until my voice comes back though, as I have a nasty head cold. Kudos to whomever figured this out - I'll search and credit them in the video.

You can see me setting the flange-focal distance in the video on Youtube. I should add an additional idea - before you loosen the adjustable collar to re-set the flange focal distance for a different mount, mark it's position so that if you go back to the factory PL mount, you can just turn it right back to the mark.

Thanks again, Evin - now it's lens babies and tilt-shift and 16mm Zenitars . . .

 

[Babu Kantamneni]

If you manage to pull it of - count me in for a IMS - sounds great!

Me too
babu

 

[Erasmus]

Excellent development

 

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

I'm working on a nifty, super strong, lighting quick lens support. Hope to test it next week. Very inexpensive, too. This should make Nikon mounted lenses really stable, so you won't get looseness causing frame shifts when you zoom or pull focus during a take..

That would come in very handy for my Nikkor 400mm 2.8. This lens weights a ton and I´m still not sure how to erector set my way to a proper lens support.

Would your system require the RED base plate + rods?

All the best,

Jochen

 

[Sean]

I'm working on a nifty, super strong, lighting quick lens support. Hope to test it next week. Very inexpensive, too. This should make Nikon mounted lenses really stable, so you won't get looseness causing frame shifts when you zoom or pull focus during a take.
. . .

Doug, would your lens support come in both the 19mm and 15mm rod varieties?