RED ONE Time-Lapse

[Joe Taylor]

I've read that the RED ONE now has some timelapse features. I have looked through red.com and found no information and have emailed RED directly with no response.

Can anybody tell me more about RED's timelapse abilities? Frame rates and whether or no it can do time-exposures?

Thanks

 

[Mark Andersen]

It does do timelapse, you can vary the time between exposures (every 1 sec. , 3 sec. 10 sec. etc.) but there seems to be some limitations as to the exposure speeds, I believe that 1/24th. is the slowest at the moment. If you want long exposures in your timelapse, use a DSLR camera and a intervelometer.

 

[I Bloom]

If you shoot 1 fps at 360 degree shutter, that is the longest exposure time.

Good timelapse relies on long exposures in my book. So I'm looking forward to slower speeds and longer exposures. But I'd still shoot timelapse with a DSLR today as well.

IBloom

 

[Thor Wixom]

Build 13 has 1 second shutter for 2 second intervals, 1/2 second shutter for 1 second intervals. Looks great at night!

Haven't checked build 15 yet. MammothHD has some of my shots.

-Thor

 

[Mark Toia]

Build 13 has 1 second shutter for 2 second intervals, 1/2 second shutter for 1 second intervals. Looks great at night!

Haven't checked build 15 yet. MammothHD has some of my shots.

-Thor

I new i saw those shutter times before, I thought I was going mad!..

I wonder why they don't have 1sec duration shutter now? on later builds.

I so wish they get it back, Having to pack your RED away to use a DSLR sucks!.

 

[stats79]

Time-lapse with digital still cameras is very problematic. Internal processing causes a different histogram on each frame. Thus frames do not appear to be equally exposed from frame to frame. Because of this issue apparent exposure will appear to vary from frame to frame depending on the light levels in each frame. Thus exposure will appear to "flutter" when the timelapse sequence is played back. This problem is most dramatic when shooting a daylight sky with lots of clouds.

I for one hope that Red adds back the long shutter times to its software. Red, and SI are the only really ideal ways to do timelapse with a digital camera.

 

[Mark Andersen]

Time-lapse with digital still cameras is very problematic. Internal processing causes a different histogram on each frame. Thus frames do not appear to be equally exposed from frame to frame. Because of this issue apparent exposure will appear to vary from frame to frame depending on the light levels in each frame. Thus exposure will appear to "flutter" when the timelapse sequence is played back. This problem is most dramatic when shooting a daylight sky with lots of clouds.

I for one hope that Red adds back the long shutter times to its software. Red, and SI are the only really ideal ways to do timelapse with a digital camera.

The "flutter" is due to using too high a shutter speed. DSLR shutters are not accurate enough to give consistent exposures on timelapse. You have to shoot with slow exposure (1/4 sec. or slower is prefered) to avoid the flutter. But you also need to use wider F stops to avoid sensor dust problems. So you'll need some ND with your DLSR.

 

[Joe Taylor]

"It does do timelapse, you can vary the time between exposures (every 1 sec. , 3 sec. 10 sec. etc.) but there seems to be some limitations as to the exposure speeds, I believe that 1/24th. is the slowest at the moment. If you want long exposures in your timelapse, use a DSLR camera and a intervelometer."

Those kind of specs are for hobbiests. If that is the best reD can do they can go sell it at Wal-Mart or Best Buy-- or at least wait to release those features when the camea is ready.

As for using a DSLR, they are simply not made for time-lapse work. I have had the shutter rebuilt on my Canon D20 twice now, so using a DSLR really is not the way to go. If you're playing around it is fine, but I shoot time-lapse professionally.

Currently I do all my work on 35mm but hope that a company will come along with the ability to allow users to dial in their exposures as easily as one can with the DSLR. Right now Sony's XDCAM has the best features with their "Slow shutter" that only works as an okay feature.

Somebody will make it happen, and the first company that does will get my money. RED is going to have some serious competition in the mid-range/high-end HD camera market very, very soon.

 

[stats79]

The "flutter" is due to using too high a shutter speed.

Yes, this is the standard response, but in fact it is wrong. The real issue with "flutter" and time-lapse with digital still cameras comes from the issue of of internal processing of the histogram of each and every frame. There is a software solution on the internet, but not completely satisfactory.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Joe, your work is fantastic. I commented on it over at cinematography.com a while back.

I would not be so harsh on DLSR cameras for timelapse. I shoot RAW and run my DLSR timelapses through photoshop automated RAW batch processing, and I don't get any flicker at all in my shots. Also, to me, it seems like 35mm timelapse introduces some variables as well. For instance, you might shoot the timelapse perfectly, but then the lab screws it up, or a hair was in the gate, etc. One of the pros here wrote a post a while back describing the nightmare of chemical 35mm timelapse, and I was thanking my stars that I only shoot digital!

No one has ever said definitively whether Red will be able to shoot long exposures. Many of us here are hoping it does happen.

BTW, how many frames before your D20 shutter gave out (twice) and what did it cost to replace or rebuild?

 

[Brent J. Craig]

As for using a DSLR, they are simply not made for time-lapse work. I have had the shutter rebuilt on my Canon D20 twice now...

The shutters in prosumer DSLRs are not made for more than 20 to 50,000 cycles.

This is one of the reasons professional DSLRs cost more. Their shutters can handle 500,000 or more cycles.

I have had very good results shooting timelapse on a DSLR simply by turning off all of the processing the camera does on each frame. RAW is an even better way, but slower.

 

[Andrew Walker]

I used a Canon 20D for all of the timelapse on my site and that shutter is still going strong. I've now moved over to a 40D and that camera is awesome for timelapse. Until Red comes out with a build that fixes the timelapse function in the camera I'm going to keep using my 40D to do all my timelapse. But I am looking forward to using the Red for timelapse. I'm just not looking forward to hiking it out to some of the locations that I go to get my shots.

 

[Thor Wixom]

I'm just going to "upgrade" to build 13 whenever I need to do a slow shutter time lapse. Then re-upgrade when I'm done. No big deal. I've already done it that way going between build 14 and build 13. No problems to report.

-Thor

 

[Andrew Walker]

Build 13 shutter only went as slow as 1/16th or 1/24th. It would display 1 second exposures as a setting but it wouldn't do it...at least not for me.

 

[Cyrus David]

Timelapse with DSLR

Timelapse with DSLR

I shoot time-lapse professionally with DSLR's and as far as shutter durability goes, I've had luck with my Canon 20D...over 250,000 clicks so far...but I have moved on to my 30D now.

Canon spec's both at about 100,000 clicks. Shutters can be replaced for about $200 though. Only the pro bodies such as the 1D, 1DS, 1D Mark II/n, 1DS Mark II have very high ratings and these don't exceed 250,000 releases.

Looking at doing time-lapse with DSLR's over using the RED is a no-brainer.

It's relatively inexpensive and that brings peace of mind on location (weather, theft, damage), has long exposure ability, and access to great 35mm professional lenses, and of course, uses off-the-shelf CF cards. They (20D and 30D) shoot RAW between 3k (3072x1728) and 4k(4096x2304) at (3504 x 2336).

FYI...that doesn't stop me from drooling over RED...which I plan to use for real time stock.

I shoot manually most always (except day to nite shots - aperature priority for that) and have not had any problems with flutter but have purchased filmfix of red giant software from toolfarm.com to deal with that issue.

The only issue I have had to deal with is with stability in high winds. I have a heavy monfrotto tripod...but that can't compare to the tripods holding the redone cameras, I'm sure. I've had to stabilize my shots with software on the odd occasion (I use ae or filmfix and hear mocha is the best).

On a realated note....I wonder what plugin Scratch uses to stabilize it's shots?

Cheers,
cd

 

[Tom Lowe]

I've now moved over to a 40D and that camera is awesome for timelapse.

Drew, what is it that you like about the 40D? I might be getting a new body soon, so I am considering the XTi and 40D.

 

[Joe Taylor]

Joe, your work is fantastic. I commented on it over at cinematography.com a while back.

I would not be so harsh on DLSR cameras for timelapse. I shoot RAW and run my DLSR timelapses through photoshop automated RAW batch processing, and I don't get any flicker at all in my shots. Also, to me, it seems like 35mm timelapse introduces some variables as well. For instance, you might shoot the timelapse perfectly, but then the lab screws it up, or a hair was in the gate, etc. One of the pros here wrote a post a while back describing the nightmare of chemical 35mm timelapse, and I was thanking my stars that I only shoot digital!

No one has ever said definitively whether Red will be able to shoot long exposures. Many of us here are hoping it does happen.

BTW, how many frames before your D20 shutter gave out (twice) and what did it cost to replace or rebuild?

Hey Tom! As far as I know, I have no way to check how many frames have been fired on a D20 (You'd think there'd be.) It must have been well over 150,000. Most of the shots I make are time-exposures, so keeping the shutter open for :30+ Secs. might add more wear to the shutter.

If somebody doesn't come up with a better solution in the HD market, I'll have to have a dedicated SLR for my digital time-lapse rig.

Lately, however, after seeing some new work projected in 35mm, I have a new appreciation for film again... which feels really good.

 

[Andrew Walker]

Drew, what is it that you like about the 40D? I might be getting a new body soon, so I am considering the XTi and 40D.

The 40D has a better A to D converter in it. 14bit instead of 12bit. I just wanted to make sure the gradients, like in sunsets and many other things look as smooth as possible. What I would really like is a full frame DSLR to do my timelapse with. But I went with the 40D because of 14bit thing and the high frame rate.

 

[Tom Lowe]

I'd love to have a full-frame DLSR as well. The new 1Ds Mark III has enough resolution to legitimately talk about an IMAX DMR, and even night stuff should hold up at 4K.

I'm getting ready to throw some money into a moco system, though, so full frame will have to wait! I'd just like to have a second body, since a lot times when I'm out shooting I could easily set up another shot.

 

[Francis Kenny]

I recently shot a film for Timothy Ferris based on his book Seeing in the Dark. I used a Canon 1DsMk2 with a Zeiss 28mm Distagon. The night time lapse work was Raw, ASA 400, shutter speed set at 15 seconds, F2.8, and a hand warmer to prevent condensation. It worked perfectly on several sequences. I too am looking forward to shooting time lapse with my Red.