Grading on smoke-best Redcine output?

[Allan Stallard]

I'm grading and finishing a project on smoke 2008. I'm trying to figure out what file format would be best suited to export from Redcine on PC. The end deliverable will be digibeta for broadcast.

I am just eye matching the edit, so I don't need timecode. I'm finishing in 720P and then downrezing again for the letterboxed SD. Format settings have been Camera RGB and REDlog. I have also played with a few shots outputting with Rec.709. I haven't been using 16 bit files (Tiffs or open EXR) because the reality is I need to conserve space on the stone.

Q1: If I am not going back to film is there any reason why I would want to grade in REDlog instead of Rec.709?

Q2: I can't find a histogram in Redcine PC. Is it only in RedAlert?

Q3: The Output setting are not letting me change the format anymore or allowing me to select a different output path. Is this a bug or am I not following the proper procedure?

Thanks!

 

[Allan Stallard]

OK, now I see "invalidate" seems to clear the lock I had in Q3.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I'm grading and finishing a project on smoke 2008. I'm trying to figure out what file format would be best suited to export from Redcine on PC. The end deliverable will be digibeta for broadcast.

I am just eye matching the edit, so I don't need timecode. I'm finishing in 720P and then downrezing again for the letterboxed SD. Format settings have been Camera RGB and REDlog. I have also played with a few shots outputting with Rec.709. I haven't been using 16 bit files (Tiffs or open EXR) because the reality is I need to conserve space on the stone.

Q1: If I am not going back to film is there any reason why I would want to grade in REDlog instead of Rec.709?

Q2: I can't find a histogram in Redcine PC. Is it only in RedAlert?

Q3: The Output setting are not letting me change the format anymore or allowing me to select a different output path. Is this a bug or am I not following the proper procedure?

Thanks!

q1: rec. 709 should be the best way...
q2: go to the top of the screen a, menu will slide in....there is the histogram

 

[Allan Stallard]

Thank you!

Now that I'm looking at the histogram should I adjust the ISO until I see histo spread across the entire range for best grading?

The rec 709 has a punchier white and black point than the REDlog. Does that mean I have reduced headroom?

Or by having the histogram spread across the entire range does THAT give me more headroom for grading. I seem to be a little confused... !

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Thank you!

Now that I'm looking at the histogram should I adjust the ISO until I see histo spread across the entire range for best grading?

The rec 709 has a punchier white and black point than the REDlog. Does that mean I have reduced headroom?

Or by having the histogram spread across the entire range does THAT give me more headroom for grading. I seem to be a little confused... !

Last time I was really familiar with Smoke was a loooong time ago, so bear with me...

1) Does Smoke have a mode where it can accept Log files by default? If so, then the path I would take would be to put RedLog on the files, and export to DPX. That will preserve max dynamic range.

2) Yes. Punchier white and black point means you are throwing away information IF you export that for another system. The goal here for going from REDCINE -> SystemX is to preserve range that can be manipulated on that system.

3) Regarding the histogram - sort of basic color grading theory applies here... keep image neutral while stretching black and white point to the edges but not beyond. Make sure that if Smoke is expecting LOG images, that you respect 95/685 ranges or 0/1023 ranges depending on what is expected.

Bottom line - I believe safest choice is RedLog and export to DPX.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

 

[Allan Stallard]

Thanks Luki. Essentially smoke (2008) projects can be setup with 3 bit depths 8, 10 and 16 (packed and unpacked). All linear. When working on a project that is going back to film you would use a log file with a log-lin LUT for proper viewing.

My understanding was that using a log file in linear space gave me extra information in the top end and I just color corrected accordingly with the intention of keeping in linear space all the way to tape.

I guess I need to just compare some frames to see how far I can push the REDlog vs. the REC. 709

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

Hi Animal,

We did a lot of testing and we have also found that outputting to RedLog from RedCine is your best bet. I appears to give you the most headroom and allows to preserve better contrasts after final color correction.