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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Accessories - Sexy vs. Crappy

Looks like you are using the mini-XLR to mini-XLR cable and XLR adaptor. In the README notes for Build 15, it states that you need to notify us if you have those so we can replace with new XLR to mini-XLR cable adaptors. I would suggest trying those first.

BC
 
kinobairn said:
Our accessories that we just got, look beautiful, great quality with a great finish.
Click to expand...

More feedback of this kind would be honney to my ears.:biggrin:

Emmanuel
 
Brent@RED said:
Looks like you are using the mini-XLR to mini-XLR cable and XLR adaptor. In the README notes for Build 15, it states that you need to notify us if you have those so we can replace with new XLR to mini-XLR cable adaptors. I would suggest trying those first.
Click to expand...

Can you post a picture of old vs. new parts for clarification?
 
Brent,
I know that most people were concerned about the appearance of the finish. I didn't really care. I have one top mount that's machined and shiny, and one that's cast and flat. Whatever.
The bigger question, raised for me by CJRoy's post, is are the cast parts structurally sound especially where they take the entire load of the camera, lens, and accessories, which are also typically pick points for the grips to rig them on stunt vehicles, etc.
My experience with cast parts is that they don't have the same tensile strength as machined billet parts. But I'm not a metallurgist or master machinist. Who on the Red Team has those job descriptions? And can they comment here?
Cheers,
Harry
 
A cable for $200? Parts not as pictured?
All these chinsy parts adding up to more than the $17.5 K you initially planned on spending?
Is Jim taking all of you fanboys for a ride?
You can buy a Sony Ex1 for $6500. Does 1080p. Easy workflow.
Everything including CF card included.
Open the case and start shooting the next moment.
You get your investment back after your first gig.
With RED, $200 cable and chinsy parts are just the beginning. Strap your belts and Get ready for a bumpy ride.
 
Chuck, just come clean man. The suspense is killing us. Dealer or Sony Rep?

If you're just a regular guy who doesn't care for RED and likes Sony and Panasonic better, that's cool too. But you got to admit, it's pretty blatant, don't you think. I'm not a RED fanboy. I happen to like the camera. Does it fall short on some things right now, sure. So don't Sony and Panasonics. But why respond everytime with a Sony product pitch.

I hope I'm wrong. Maybe you are just a guy throwing your two cents in. If so, I apologize.
 
chuckt said:
A cable for $200? Parts not as pictured?
All these chinsy parts adding up to more than the $17.5 K you initially planned on spending?
Is Jim taking all of you fanboys for a ride?
You can buy a Sony Ex1 for $6500. Does 1080p. Easy workflow.
Everything including CF card included.
Open the case and start shooting the next moment.
You get your investment back after your first gig.
With RED, $200 cable and chinsy parts are just the beginning. Strap your belts and Get ready for a bumpy ride.
Click to expand...

Chuckt:

1. Is it the anonymity of the internet that has made you this way or are you like this when you meet people face to face as well?

2. Have you ever contributed a single iota of helpful information to this forum or all of your posts as negative and whiny as the ones I have read lately? You're so blatantly trying to sow discontent - it's a shock you can't get a better return for your efforts elsewhere.

Moderators:

Why is he still here? Can't someone ban him already?
 
chuckt said:
A cable for $200? Parts not as pictured?
All these chinsy parts adding up to more than the $17.5 K you initially planned on spending?
Is Jim taking all of you fanboys for a ride?
You can buy a Sony Ex1 for $6500. Does 1080p. Easy workflow.
Everything including CF card included.
Open the case and start shooting the next moment.
You get your investment back after your first gig.
With RED, $200 cable and chinsy parts are just the beginning. Strap your belts and Get ready for a bumpy ride.
Click to expand...


maybe you are right...

but hell the red one is sexy...the EX 1 looks like a toy.
i love the Design
 
Put his name (be sure to include the T part) in that thingy which blocks his posts from showing up on your computer. It worked for me with that film gang or gangbang or what ever their name was. lol
 
Parts Manufacturer

Parts Manufacturer

Harry,

I spent fifteen years owning a parts manufacturing company. We utilized laser, water-jets, CNC mills etc, etc. We also provided secondary finishing, anodizing through outsourcing. We manufactured industrial and architectural components for OEM's and builders. I think this would qualify me to answer some of your concerns - mine too.

I should be receiving my Red #855 in the next few days. I will be giving the accessories a good inspection and will post my opinion then. I can however tell you that a cast part, given identical dimensional characteristics and base metal composition to that of a machined part, will NEVER hold up as long. Nor can it be finished or weather protected as well as a machined part. The reason for this is the manner in which the molecules are aligned in a machined part during the manufacturing process vs. how a cast part is made up of little droplets of poured only metal - no opportunity for the cast molecules to join and align themselves. From the picture, I can see why these parts failed, the hole is too close to the edge - not enough meat for a cast part to ever hold up over time and use. Cast material is inherently brittle when compared to machined aluminum. Small hairline fractures can start as early as the reaming and tapping process of these holes. I know this because we use to edge trim and fine cut high tolerance holes in aluminum cast parts with our 50k psi water jet. Quality control x-ray tests confirmed that allowances had to be made for cast part hole location.

I understand Reds desire to break the mold and the death grip that sony, panasonic and their competitors had on this market. But I believe it is a mistake on their part to attempt to provide cast parts which will be used as support for their new baby in an effort to keep down the cost of said parts.

Within the component parts manufacturing industry, price is a function of volume. Machine set up and CADD design time is divided by order quantity in calculating price quotes. I know that a CNC mill costs about $85/hr to run and wear items such as bits should not add too much to the cost as we are dealing with aluminum. There are literally thousands of machine shops out there with the capability to pump these parts out, ship them to an finishing house and then a QC check and out to Red and us. Orders of say of 3000+ should attract a lot of interest and that just one of the Red parts. If I still had my old company I'd be quoting on it. If someone at Red would like me to help out here I'd be happy to get some quotes for them. I'm a little busy for the next two weeks but could take a look after that.

Hope this helps.

Michael
 
Maybe something like this:
http://liquidmetal.com/

I don't know how it cost to make a part out of LiquidMetal but that would be incredible. There is an issue with painting it though.
 
chuckt said:
A cable for $200? Parts not as pictured?
All these chinsy parts adding up to more than the $17.5 K you initially planned on spending? etc...
Click to expand...

I prefer education rather than banning or ignoring when I can (although I did my first ever "ignore" a couple weeks ago on this very forum.)

Chuck, it is apparent you are coming from the prosumer space and may find the cost of professional film and video gear a bit daunting. In the pro domain, everything is purchased ala carte, including batteries, lenses, support, etc. While pro-sumer gear has its charms and excellently serves its market niche, pro gear is designed to deliver to the next level. While the Sonys and Panasonics of the world are still delivering their best-of-show cameras at the $100K price-point, RED Digital Cinema introduced a professional camera at a fraction of that cost.

If $17,500 plus the needed accessories is a bit rich for your blood, then that's fine. Perhaps you might consider simply marveling at what R.D.C. has accomplished and expressing envy that you can't be a pro player right now, rather than griping about how this camera doesn't fit your needs at this time.

Who knows? Perhaps, by seeking mentors amongst those who are ahead of you in the game, you will get a leg up on your own career.

Good luck in your search for the perfect camera.

Michael
 
Michael Morlan said:
I prefer education rather than banning or ignoring when I can (although I did my first ever "ignore" a couple weeks ago on this very forum.)

Chuck, it is apparent you are coming from the prosumer space and may find the cost of professional film and video gear a bit daunting. In the pro domain, everything is purchased ala carte, including batteries, lenses, support, etc. While pro-sumer gear has its charms and excellently serves its market niche, pro gear is designed to deliver to the next level. While the Sonys and Panasonics of the world are still delivering their best-of-show cameras at the $100K price-point, RED Digital Cinema introduced a professional camera at a fraction of that cost.

If $17,500 plus the needed accessories is a bit rich for your blood, then that's fine. Perhaps you might consider simply marveling at what R.D.C. has accomplished and expressing envy that you can't be a pro player right now, rather than griping about how this camera doesn't fit your needs at this time.

Who knows? Perhaps, by seeking mentors amongst those who are ahead of you in the game, you will get a leg up on your own career.

Good luck in your search for the perfect camera.

Michael
Click to expand...

Nice post Michael.
 
The Sony EX-1 is a great little camera and probably for quite a while the best one in the price range below 10 grand. So what's wrong with buying an EX-1 if someone can't afford a RED? BTW, we have one since we needed it and are still waiting for our RED.

But it has been made very clear from the beginning that a naked RED is not ready for shooting – just like any other professional cinematic camera. But with proper accessories it will be the best one below 50 grand (or maybe far beyond) and that's a very different class!

Regards,

Uli
 
Thanks for the insight Michael. That confirms my suspicion of cast parts in general.
Well, I for one would pay a third party for better quality accessories (in fact I have from Element Technica) especially where mission-critical items are concerned (top mounts that could shear right off)
So count me in if there are any serious machinists reading.
Cheers,
Harry
 
MVL Films said:
If someone at Red would like me to help out here I'd be happy to get some quotes for them. I'm a little busy for the next two weeks but could take a look after that.

Michael
Click to expand...

I hope Red does see that although some of us on the forum are less experienced and what not... there are definitely some highly knowledgable and skilled people here offering to help out...

and the rest of us will help in any way we can... hell I got a friend living in LA whose couch I can crash on if Red needs more hands... though I'd be an illegal alien... :(

But I'm sure you could get some extra hands in from LA. If I was in LA and had a work visa I'd jump at the chance of helping out...even for little in the way of recompence. (food and board would do)... The redolution is meant to be something fantastic to happen to the motion picture world... and it's a bit of a shame that these few issues are spoiling our fun.

Funny thing is... we want to see the big boys grip broken just as much as you zealots with the red-coloured usernames... and some of us take it personally because we want the redolution to succeed and these problems are endangering it.

I suspect that Red are losing a serious amount of cash on the Basic Production Kit. It seems to be definitely the more serious of their underestimations of the cost of the parts. But... the answer is definitely not a reduction in quality. That's never the answer. We aren't the handicam market afterall. Most of us have already said that we'd probably pay a little more if it meant that the accessories were reliable, well built, and worked right out of the box. Right now though... I basically give myself a 50-60 percent chance of having to send back some of my accessories (from the UK!) because they've been dodgily built and not QC'd... I love you guys but I need better than that coz it'll cost me a lot of time and money to mess around sorting out those things.
 
MVL Films said:
Harry,

I spent fifteen years owning a parts manufacturing company. We utilized laser, water-jets, CNC mills etc, etc. We also provided secondary finishing, anodizing through outsourcing. We manufactured industrial and architectural components for OEM's and builders. I think this would qualify me to answer some of your concerns - mine too.

I should be receiving my Red #855 in the next few days. I will be giving the accessories a good inspection and will post my opinion then. I can however tell you that a cast part, given identical dimensional characteristics and base metal composition to that of a machined part, will NEVER hold up as long. Nor can it be finished or weather protected as well as a machined part. The reason for this is the manner in which the molecules are aligned in a machined part during the manufacturing process vs. how a cast part is made up of little droplets of poured only metal - no opportunity for the cast molecules to join and align themselves. From the picture, I can see why these parts failed, the hole is too close to the edge - not enough meat for a cast part to ever hold up over time and use. Cast material is inherently brittle when compared to machined aluminum. Small hairline fractures can start as early as the reaming and tapping process of these holes. I know this because we use to edge trim and fine cut high tolerance holes in aluminum cast parts with our 50k psi water jet. Quality control x-ray tests confirmed that allowances had to be made for cast part hole location.

I understand Reds desire to break the mold and the death grip that sony, panasonic and their competitors had on this market. But I believe it is a mistake on their part to attempt to provide cast parts which will be used as support for their new baby in an effort to keep down the cost of said parts.

Within the component parts manufacturing industry, price is a function of volume. Machine set up and CADD design time is divided by order quantity in calculating price quotes. I know that a CNC mill costs about $85/hr to run and wear items such as bits should not add too much to the cost as we are dealing with aluminum. There are literally thousands of machine shops out there with the capability to pump these parts out, ship them to an finishing house and then a QC check and out to Red and us. Orders of say of 3000+ should attract a lot of interest and that just one of the Red parts. If I still had my old company I'd be quoting on it. If someone at Red would like me to help out here I'd be happy to get some quotes for them. I'm a little busy for the next two weeks but could take a look after that.

Hope this helps.

Michael
Click to expand...

Michael, I've been manufacturing for 25 years and I agree with everything you said. I seriously wondered why (and in fact was disappointed) when I heard RED was manufacturing in Singapore as it seemed like there is a lot of machined parts in the unit and the cost of having that done here in the states would not have been that much more. As you said there are thousands of CNC shops that would have been happy to make those parts. In fact 1000 to 5000 units would seem to be an ideal quantity to keep in the states.

When I placed my order in 2006 I was happy and somewhat proud to see an American made product competing with the Japanese. I love the camera, but I certainly lost that element of pride when I found it was made in Singapore. I know it is designed in America, but that is IMHO one of the problems with modern America - I think it is a mistake to so heavily outsource your manufacturing capability - for a lot of economic and strategic reasons.

I'm not hardcore "BUY AMERICAN", but I try to keep it in mind and I think it is too bad more of it wasn't kept here. And I think a lot of the development woes, and QC problems, would have been reduced too.
 
AquaVideoRed206 said:
Michael, I've been manufacturing for 25 years and I agree with everything you said. I seriously wondered why (and in fact was disappointed) when I heard RED was manufacturing in Singapore as it seemed like there is a lot of machined parts in the unit and the cost of having that done here in the states would not have been that much more. As you said there are thousands of CNC shops that would have been happy to make those parts. In fact 1000 to 5000 units would seem to be an ideal quantity to keep in the states.

When I placed my order in 2006 I was happy and somewhat proud to see an American made product competing with the Japanese. I love the camera, but I certainly lost that element of pride when I found it was made in Singapore. I know it is designed in America, but that is IMHO one of the problems with modern America - I think it is a mistake to so heavily outsource your manufacturing capability - for a lot of economic and strategic reasons.

I'm not hardcore "BUY AMERICAN", but I try to keep it in mind and I think it is too bad more of it wasn't kept here. And I think a lot of the development woes, and QC problems, would have been reduced too.
Click to expand...

AquaVideoRed206, I hope you are not insinuating that things made in Singapore or anywhere else except USA are not good enough or are failing QC. I am sure Red has good reasons for making their camera where they want them made.
 
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