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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

35k to spend on Lenses, any Advice

You'll be hard pressed to find an Angenieux 25-250 HR.
With the way the market is right now, saturated with buyers, all the "work-horse" lenses such as the HR have been snatched up.
Also, over the past decade or so, most of the HRs in the country went to India.
Duclos Lenses has just recently begun to buy and sell optics.
Our inventory at the moment is extremely limited as our main business remains superior optical service and maintenance.
But check out our Lens Store often as it is frequently updated.
 
Ketch, it might help to clarify (as I suspect there might be some mis-assumptions going on), the prices you gave for the lenses... is that per lens? or for a typical set? (my understanding was 'per lens', ie, expect a budget of about $100k-150k for a set of MPs).
 
Hi guys,

The prices listed are per lens (each) ranging from the cheapest to the most expensive in each set!

A full set of the ULTRA PRIME LDS is $227,700, set of 14 lenses ranging from 12mm to 180mm ( note that the 8R is not included as it is not an LDS lens, price for the 8R is $32,780) while the MASTER PRIME full set is $350,740, set of 14 lenses ranging from 14mm to 150mm, and the LWZ-1 Zoom is $55,795.


I agree with Mark that the massive size of the MP's vs. the also incredibly beautifully crafted UP's, is some what of a limitation when handheld, but also when considering the small size and weight of the RED camera, then I think that it is very visible to have a MP on the RED handheld mode, this however present no challenge at all with Steadicam or ActionCam operation as the little extra wheight provides for better balancing.

If I had my way ( and I hope I will ) as I intend to have the absolute best glass there is on my RED's) I will get a LWZ-1 which would remain permanently mounted on the Master Camera and then the MP's from focal length over 65mm for the other cameras, with interaction with the RED 300mm Prime for extremely long shot, or the Super Extreme cclose up that I love to do with such focal range, which Isolates the subject like creasy.

If I was not to go with the LWZ-1 then I'll probably mix in some UP's in the focal range below 50mm as at this range to me it is not important to have Super Speed, especially when you can shoot the UP's as you can the MP's wide open all day long, with stunning results that would challenge any stop down lens in the market.

Ciao
 
KETCH ROSSI said:
...glass is very personal...

...I'm looking for is a glass with a natural warm fill to it, sharp, but yet soft, but not to soft.
Click to expand...

Love this quote. A glass connoisseur. Sweet.

Reading all of that made me feel a little envious with my low, low budget route of using "Canon glass". BUT, I will be using L lenses. :)

...[sigh]... one day...
 
*QUOTE:*

Hi Ketch,
I was interested to read your recent comments regarding the ARRI LWZ 15.5 - 45 f/2.6 as this has been of great interest to myself for the last week or so.

There are so many unknowns with RED at the moment in regards to workflow options! I discounted the Nikkor route as the Nikon Birger mount is not going to be as full featured as the Canon option.

RED only intends to support, for the meantime, the Cooke S4/i LDS which is a bummer in regards to obtaining ARRI LDS lens options. But what does this mean for the Birger mount LDS protocol? I take it that the Birger mount uses a proprietary LDS which the RED will be able to read or will the mount support the S4/i and/or ARRI LDS protocols?

Thus far I have narrowed my kit options down to the following 2 groups:

1. Canon EF 14 mm F2.8 L II USM
2. Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L II USM
3. Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM
4. Canon EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM
5. Canon EF 135mm f/2L USM

or

1. ARRI/ZEISS LWS 15.5 - 45/T2.6
2. ARRI Master Primes 50mm, 75mm, 100mm

but will not make a firm decision until I know how the Birger mount performs. Do you know whether the Canon/Birger mount will support zoom, focus as well as aperture operation?

Many thanks for you help, Ketch.

*END QUOTE:*

I posted this here as to let every one else see the Q&A, hope is alright with you.


As far as your lens options go this are my suggestions:

the Canon glass looks good but I would add the 200mm f/2.8L as well.

For the MP's I would get the LWZ-1 and only one lens 75mm to 150mm range if money is wryly tight, as going with Primes starting at 50mm leaves a to wide of range unavailable to you below 50mm, so I would do the LWZ-1 and a 100mm or a 14mm, 50mm and 100mm, to start a set this way is more like to get you different shooting options then if you would start with a 50mm, and better yet go with the LWZ-1.

Remember that even so RED does not (as yet) support LDS protocol, all can change and it will, but if you go with the LWZ-1 you must be aware that the zoom does not support LDS natively, even so a separate adaptor is available from ARRI.

At last as far as the ARRI choices, if you can only afford the LWZ-1 or three lenses, you must get a 14mm on your three Primes kit to start, as for me it will be imperative to have a wide angle lens, were 50mm to 75mm does not present to much of a difference in most situations.

The Birger mount for Canon is for sure a far better choice as I see it.

Protocols of the electronic contacts on the Birger have full operational controls and data just as you would using the Canon lenses on a Canon DSLR, and you will still be allow to switch the lenses to Manual for manual focusing in those situations were Focus becomes more critical and pinpointed focus precision must be achieved in darker areas, or in a specific point of a selective focus area in a sandwich style shallow DOF situation, were tone of shadow or other objects are impeding correct focus.


Canon glass especially, but not limited to, the L series are incredibly good glass, it is best to go with the new generations when all possible, the MK II'S in some focal lengths.

The new MK II's, on the 16-35mm f/2.8L zoom is an example of how the new technology employed by Canon, has evolved in just few years, and now capable of producing a glass in a zoom on the wide angle, with very well controlled Vignetting and CA, as well as one of the most important things on any lens, Flair control.

Also the MK II 14mm f/2.8L is an outstanding new Prime that has improved so drastically from the first one, that you have a complete new lens, no more problems earlier owners of the MK I encounter.

The 24mm f/1.4L is also a great lens but not as great as the much more popular and Sharper 35mm f/1.4L.

The differences in the 85mm MK II are less noticeble, but still very significant.

The 135mm f/2L is a super sharp lens and a must have on any kit, especially because is so cheap when compared to the 85mm or the 14mm.

The 200mm f/2.8L II is no question better then the predeccessor and if you do get a 200 don't get the MK I get the newest version MK II as it will give much pleasing results.

The new to be released 200mm f/2L it will be very interesting choice.

The 300mm f/2.8L is a fantastic lens and I would compare it very close to the RED 300mm, but I do believe that the RED 300mm stands in a class of its own, and it is better then the Canon 300mm in most aspects, from build quality to design.

The 400mm f/2.8L is an other fantastic lens and the fastest in its class at the focal range, so if you need an extreme this is as far as I would go.

The 500mm, 600mm and soon to be released 800mm all L series are for sure good options, and will be for many documentary shooters, but they are much slower and cumbersome to the extreme.

Hope this helps a little.

Ciao
 
Hey Ketch,

KETCH ROSSI said:
At last as far as the ARRI choices, if you can only afford the LWZ-1 or three lenses, you must get a 14mm on your three Primes kit to start, as for me it will be imperative to have a wide angle lens, were 50mm to 75mm does not present to much of a difference in most situations.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, my reference to the ARRI lenses was the LWZ with the 50mm, 75mm, 100mm, and not either the LWZ or the 3 primes. So 15.5-45, 50, 75, 100.

Many thanks for the update. Very helpful.
 
Most welcome,

but in that case, unless it is particularly important to you to have a super speed at 50mm I strongly suggest that you do jump the 50 on the prime, and go 75mm 100mm and the new 150mm.

The reason I say this is because I absolutely love very shallow DOF created in a combination of ways and when matching a super speed shot wide open, with a very long Focal lenght such as the 150mm MASTER PRIME, well you capture such a dramatic scenes like you haven't seen before, but again do keep in mind that I like to dramatize subject Isolation.

Ciao
 
Emmanuel Cambier said:
Hey Mark,

The 15-40 is made by Cooke and I don't believe the 18-85 made by Red will have better mechanics.
But I do agree that the focal range is more attractive.

Emmanuel
Click to expand...

I personally don't believe that Cooke makes the 15-40... neither the glass nor the mechanics. Their reputation for quality in both departments is not consistent with the build quality of the 15-40.

Someday we'll all learn the mysteries of Red Lens production sources, but I wouldn't look to Cooke as the manufacturer.

I'm hoping that the 18-85 will be better, given that it has been in development longer, which suggests that Red may be designing and building it from scratch like the primes. If it has an optical and build quality close to the 300mm, doesn't breath like the 18-50, has internal focusing and witness marks, I'll buy it.

M
 
ketch,

just curious on your thoughts on the 24-70L and 70-200L? big or little difference between those listed primes?
 
ketch,

just curious on your thoughts on the 24-70L and 70-200L? big or little difference between those listed primes?
 
jing said:
ketch,

just curious on your thoughts on the 24-70L and 70-200L? big or little difference between those listed primes?
Click to expand...

Any time you compare a ZOOM to a PRIME, there is bound to be differences, in some manufacturers less then others.

In the case of Canon L series, it depends on the Prime and the Zoom compared.

The 24-70mm f/2.8L is one of, if not the best zoom from canon, only a trained eye will tell differences from the 24-70 and any Prime in that range, probably the only Prime that will be a hard to match in the 24-70 range, will be the 35mm f/1.4L, but again is more about the speed of the prime then the actual quality of the image, were sharpness is concern, the 35mm Prime is sharper, but the 24-70 Zoom has a very pleasing and Organic fill to it.

The 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM is the absolute top Zoom that Canon makes, it is as close as you can get to primes, especially because of the IS system is very effective on this lens.

So when you are comparing this particular Zooms, and also the 16-35mm f/2.8L II, you can not go wrong, it is only a choice of Primes vs. Zooms in speed consideration of the lens, and avoiding breathing, when using this lenses with RED/Birger.

*EDIT*

Do note that while the 70-200 is IF and IZ, (inner focus and inner zoom) the 24-70 it is only IF but it extends while zooming making using MB's not possible, unless the MB is only used for shading W/O filters were the lens is allowed to zoom true it.(see photo below)

Hope it helps.

Ciao
 
Well, yes off course Michael, great of you to point this option out!

A second hood can be purchased to be used in the regard, as a very long lens to MB ring.

As is made of harden plastic, it is very simple to cut and also there is no need for any glue, I have adapted most of my lens hoods to be petal shaped rater then circular, so to make the petal shape hood of the 24-70, circular is much easier, just need a metal saw and a firmly strait cut across, then once the that is done fitting to the MB can be achieved via traditional step down rings screwed in to the MB it self.

Ciao
 
thanks! that's exactly what i wanted to hear because i just bought those two lenses and will use it for the majority of my work. i'm considering a macro lens and maybe a wider lens. any macro lens recommendations?

i'm not familiar with mb and filters and was planning on just using a hood and nd filters to save money. is that a bad idea?

i'm not sure if i completely understand your talk about cutting, glue, etc. i think it's about making the canon lens match up again a mb?

is there a benefit to petal shaped then circular?
 
You can go about in two different ways when it comes to macro.

A) Go with the Canon 180mm L, great lens just like the 200mm L, is very sharp, just not as fast in autofocus, but that is not your problem when using it with RED/Birger.

B) You can use the 135mm L, or the 200mm L with a close up lens screwed on, like the 500D, or even the RedRock 72mm lens, great for micro photography, and I have it and use it with my lenses with fantastic results.

It depends on what you are shooting, if you have a standing still subject, like a watch or a cup of coffee etc. then the close up lens or diopter, is a great option and you save your self the extra money to buy an extra lens.

If you are shooting life subject like a girls RED hot lips, the you can use the lens still, but the camera must me very still and so the model, but if movement is involved is best to go with a selected macro lens like the EF 180mm L.


As far as cutting the petal shape hood on the 24-70 is only to make it even at the front edge, so it becomes circular as will fit correctly in to the MB and Step down rings.

There is some that argue the difference from the circular to the petal shape hood, personally I prefer the Petal shape ones, and I have all my hoods individually custom cut and file down that way, as I can play a little more with were and how much light I let in to the front lens element, shading more or less from the direct light, just by rotating the hood.

Ciao
 
Anyone have a price list of zeiss master primes?
 
Contact AbelCine. They are the US dealer for Arri/Zeiss cine lenses. Oh and brace yourself when you see the quote, you're going to feel just like someone ripped your stomach out through your wallet.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Contact AbelCine. They are the US dealer for Arri/Zeiss cine lenses. Oh and brace yourself when you see the quote, you're going to feel just like someone ripped your stomach out through your wallet.
Click to expand...

I would recommend that you visit a good dealer, like Abel, and ask to project various lenses first.

Apart from speed, there is little difference between UPs and MPs at the medium to long end. But, at wide end, you will have a difficult decision and indeed your wallet my need to undergo some extreme liposuction.

Either way, on a projector, you will see very clearly what you are paying for and you can make educated decisions.
 
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