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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Looking at Scratch? A little advice..

mmost said:
Well, DP's never had a posthouse in their garage before Red. And editors never had posthouses in their garages, either. DP's have shot for many, many years without "needing" to be post vendors as well. What's being talked about here is the notion of entitlement - that everything should be easily available and cheap, and that everyone is entitled to have it. Which is also what's being questioned.
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1......before red everything was a little different...dont you think so?
2. its nonsense (dont know a softer word,sorry) that everything should be available and cheap. (btw:Scratch IS CHEAP)
Nobody ever questioned the price of an ARRI ULTRA PRIME for example.
And red gives a great alternative, their lenses.
3. I want to have the possibility that everybody can use this awesome footage without glitsches.
Redcine is FREE....and because of that it has its limitations.
BUT i want to have a redcine Pro...not Scratch...
more precise:
i want to have a tool like redcine, which can read r3d files,read EDLs,can do 1st light colorcorrection,monitoring via HD SDI, output to 2k or 4k...
This will happen(possibly end of the year, then all of this discussion will be pretty worthless)...i am not targeting scratch as a product. Scratch can do far more things, you know it better then me.


So assimilate has right now the oppurtunity to earn some bucks with a pro version until the code becomes free without pissing of their current clients.

And dont forget the other posthouses who already have their non scratch system, which are much much more expensive (talking about your "cheap" argument), but they have trouble to get an easy comfortable workflow, like you can see in this forum. They would probably also buy a redcine Pro.

it would be win win situation for everybody...
red would be integrated really fast in existing pipelines( i know its possible now, but possible doesnt mean easy),
everybody could use an easy workflow.
the scratch suites are not addictive to red one clients ( if so, they are doing something wrong), they offer different type of services.
assimilate could make some bucks...
 
Personally, I would relax and wait until NAB. I'm sure that the DI market will be expanded concerning RED. Just wait and enjoy your self.

Hans

PS: I find it interesting that Scratch is a continuous apple of discord. No reason really, there are some contenders around which are worth a look, IRIDAS SpeedGrade for instance. Scratch is great, so are others.

Also, grading off the r3d files is not working in Scratch in RT on any PC. One needs dedicated hardware for this - am I wrong?
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Also, grading off the r3d files is not working in Scratch in RT on any PC. One needs dedicated hardware for this - am I wrong?
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Scratch's full toolset is available for native .r3d footage. This includes realtime color grading.

There is no dedicated hardware required. If you want to grade on a calibrated display via HD-SDI then you will need an Nvidia QFX4600 w/ the SDI option. (and, i guess, a calibrated display)

Most newer workstations can run Scratch with (4K) .r3d footage at 1K in realtime with no problem.

If you want to grade your (4K) .r3d footage @ 2K/high-quality @ 24fps reliably, then you will need to wait until the BOXX 8450SE workstation is released @ NAB.
 
lucas used scratch on a macbook pro at L.A.R.T.

Hans you are right, all of this discussions will be history @ the moment the redcode gets free.

If you want to do 1st CC, secondiers etc. in RT you will need beside a quadcore a good N`vidia card.
 
BOXXLabs said:
Scratch's full toolset is available in realtime for native .r3d footage. This includes color grading.
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Well, yes I know. But you need for RT .r3d grading hardware that is not cheap off-the-shelf stuff. I am saying this because Scratch's performance as with any other DI software relies on cutting edge hardware. Meaning, buying just a software bundle probably won't do it.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Well, yes I know. But you need for RT .r3d grading hardware that is not cheap off-the-shelf stuff. I am saying this because Scratch's performance as with any other DI software relies on cutting edge hardware. Meaning, buying just a software bundle probably won't do it.

Hans
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Actually, Hans... not completely true.

For realtime 1/2 Rez High from the 4K, then yes - you need pretty cutting edge hardware. But my laptop plays back 1/4 medium in realtime, and 1/4 rez high almost in realtime.

When you're talking about "realtime" for R3D files, separate that into two distinct sections:

CPU power - decompression, decode, debayer, demosaic for R3D files
GPU power - any and all things color.

My laptop has the CPU power to playback 1/4 medium RT and 1/4 high almost RT. It has the GPU power to do several realtime color correction layers on that same file.

Best,

Lucas

Lucas
 
K.Berlin said:
1......before red everything was a little different...dont you think so?
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Well, no, not really, at least regarding the subject of post production. Desktop nonlinear editing has been around for quite a few years now, and even the ability to do compressed HD finishing on Final Cut systems has been around for at least 4 years. So if one wanted to do their own post production - minus the editing and color correction talent, of course - one has been able to do that for quite some time. The appearance of Red has not changed that at all.


So assimilate has right now the oppurtunity to earn some bucks with a pro version until the code becomes free without pissing of their current clients.
Click to expand...

As Lucas has said numerous times, Redcine is not an Assimilate product. It is Red's product. It's up to them if they want to go any further with it.
 
Fredrik Harreschou said:
Jay.

I've been following your threads since the time you got your camera and I know your remarks have a background. If your workflow issues, and I know what they are, gives you the right to be insulting or to imply that RED as a company can no longer be trusted, well that is your judgement. Your posts in the now closed Tiered Partners... thread is actually what made me react, you calmed down on the SCRATCH pricing conspiracy quite quickly ;)

I research a lot regarding all aspects of the RED ONE, including workflows. I have already shot and posted several commercials for nationwide broadcast with the RED ONE if that matters to you. Your post seemed to indicate just that. Not that I can see how it matters.

You post on a public forum. If your personal opinions are only meant to be read or commented on by "people on this forum that I will listen to when I am getting "out of hand", you shouldn't.

Best regards,
Fredrik

EDIT: You edited in that I made another post directed at you. When was that?

I meant my first post to be interpreted in the best possible manner. It seemed that you were saying things you possibly didn't mean. But you state again that you have everything under control. So I'll leave you alone after this.

One more thing: Do you think it was a good thing that the discussion got so out of hand that they closed down the Tiered Partners... thread? You have always stood up for yourself and what you want out of this camera and I respect you for that. But you starting this thread here and also pretty much called Jim Jannard and his entire company liars in one day. It made me react. Sorry.
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I did not calm down on this quickly, Luki and I basically agreed. Bottom line, Luki does not care which system you are buying SCRATH for, he'll give you the best price possible regards of format, and welcomes competition. So if you say you are using a RED or not, if you say you are looking at othe systems or not, Luki will give you the best price possible.

This made my entire post a non-starter.. Nevertheless poeple still seem to be talking!! :)

As for the other thread and it getting shut down.. I'm afraid I cannot take full credit for that, others like Aqua dropped quite a bomb there too.

Nevertheless, you are right it was a heated thread.. I am quite sure everyone at RED KNEW it would be.

This is a very serious subject, RED's weakness in its post chain is costing people a lot of money and emotions are running high. RED is doing what they can, but sadly it's not enough for some.

This make this situation, for the time being at least, a no-win situation.

That really sucks for us, and for RED. Like all things, this will pass, but it may be a painful trip

Jay
 
mmost said:
Well, no, not really, at least regarding the subject of post production. Desktop nonlinear editing has been around for quite a few years now, and even the ability to do compressed HD finishing on Final Cut systems has been around for at least 4 years. So if one wanted to do their own post production - minus the editing and color correction talent, of course - one has been able to do that for quite some time. The appearance of Red has not changed that at all.
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mmost, you are for sure talented in what you are doing, but you missed something really big that is going on...
for my part i know that for the highend post houses red is just another aquisition tool, nothing more...
but for the rest....red is something like a dream, like you can see with more then 3000 sold red ones...
sadly i realize that you will not have the taste of this feeling. but its ok.
 
K.Berlin said:
I dont care if a system is 1000 000 USD even if this system would be delivered with a 3 headed human clone.
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I would like this particular system with the three headed clone. I'd rent it out at NAB as an amusement park thing.....
"Come one come all. See the 3 headed human clone edit bleeding edge 4k resolution footage in real time"
I'd charge 20 bucks for 5 minutes. Lineups would beat the Red tent long enough to recoup the million and then some.
 
mmost said:
As Lucas has said numerous times, Redcine is not an Assimilate product. It is Red's product. It's up to them if they want to go any further with it.
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if so (show me where lucas said this)
1. call the product scratch L or diet scratch
or...
2. change assimiliate with RED in every post....who is responsible for redcine,
graeme, rob,Jim,jarred? Who is the person i have to ask for a pro version?
 
Jay A. Kelley said:
...
As for the other thread and it getting shut down.. I'm afraid I cannot take full credit for that, others like Aqua dropped quite a bomb there too.

Nevertheless, you are right it was a heated thread.. I am quite sure everyone at RED KNEW it would be.
...
Click to expand...

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=10081
It seems like you got my point. I understand your frustration. It was the way you expressed it that made me react.

Now, let us put this behind us, OK? We're cool?

Regards,
Fredrik
 
I think once the R3D code is "free" and other third party jump on board and create better and cheaper tools, only then will Assimilate possibly consider a "light" version of their software...until then they have no competition and no reason to offer anything else. Really we have no reason to be angry at Assimilate, it's RED who made the decision to give exclusivity to one company and thus killing competition. Thank god this monopoly is coming to an end in April 08 and once the competing products come out, a lot of us will scratch this whole argument out of our minds... ;-)
 
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