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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Best DSLR to use as Director's Finder?

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Medavoym

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Hi,

I am looking into buying the best DSLR to function as a Director's Finder for RED. I plan to remove its native mount and install instead a cine mount to put on its body the actual cine lenses I will use for RED. I know that will make the DSLR mostly a purely dedicated device (excluding the use of still lenses) but that's exactly what I want.

Obviously, I need the sensor of the DSLR to be as close as possible to the size of the RED sensor. I don't care about the resolution but the physical size of the sensor (in mm) should be extremely close. I know most DSLR sensors are 4x3 so then probably the horizontal size should be similar, so once you crop to 16:9 you end up the same size. If the DSLR can do 16:9 natively and match RED sensor's size, so much the better.

Anyone knows of such a DSLR, which has a sensor close to RED's specs in mm? Any leads?

Thanks,
Mike

PS I wonder if having a CMOS DSLR with the right sized sensor would be even better, since you will not only get an accurate preview as far as size and angles are concerned, but also maybe an accurate preview of the image quality itself.
 
Well... Andrew's as right as he's wrong. Here's the numbers :

Mysterium is 24.4mm x 13.7mm.
The full Super 35 area according to ANSI is 24.89mm x 18.66mm.

That said Canon's full frame DSLRs like the 1Ds and 5D are 35.8mm x 23.9mm while their APS-C sensor sized cameras are 22.5mm x 15.0mm.

That actually makes the 3XXD, X0D closer to the specs of Mysterium, but it's also just under. Whereas their full frames largely exceed the requirements of S35.

So, well Andrew's right that it's better suited... but not closer... all resolution babble aside.

I've personally been thinking to convert my 10D to PL mount for a while. Figured I'd save myself a couple thousands just for 2 millimetres of horizontal field of view... you know.
 
Again, I am not interested in the number of pixels (resolution). I am interested in the number of horizontal mm and, if possible (if the camera can crop natively 16:9) vertical mm. I can also crop the still image vertically in post as long as the horizontal mm are the same.

It's much more important to get identical (or extremely close) angle of view and image size on the DSLR, with the same lens I'll be using on RED.
 
I have talked to a couple of people about doing this for me... It is fraught with difficulties and you may go through a few cameras trying to do what you want..

I'd be happy to discuss the problems as I understand them if you want. (pm me)

If you steam ahead and succeed there will be market for them (I want one)..

good luck

Michael Lindsay
 
In my opinion, the best candidate would be Sony Alpha DSLR-A700.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/520760-REG/Sony_DSLRA700_Alpha_DSLR_A700_Digital_Camera.html

This DSLR's sensor is 23.5 x 15.6mm, pretty close to the Mysterium's 24.4mm x 13.7mm. Also it can shoot 16:9. Not only the size in mm is pretty much correct, but the sensor is CMOS, and the resolution 12.24 megapixels!

I couldn't find a better solution than this.

Michael, I've PM'ed you. Maybe we should keep the discussion open in case other people are interested as well. What are the exact difficulties in getting rid of the original mount and install a cine mount? The shutter/rear element distance?

PS There is also the cheaper line of Sony Alpha DSLR, but they come with CCD sensors. They can also shoot 16:9, though.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08013004sonyalpha300350.asp
 
If you go the Canon mount path - I agree that the 10d is a relative inexpensive and interesting solution.
 
For a viewfinder, the resolution shouldn't matter. The dimensions of the imager and the resulting FOV are what you are looking at. You want a lens to have the same FOV in your viewfinder(dSLR) as on the camera(Red).

The Canons are a good choice because they have one of the shortest flange focal distances, 44mm. PL-mount is 52mm. The Canon EF mount is also the same internal diameter as PL, 54mm. So, a simple EF to PL adapter could be made(theoretically) from a male EF mount and a female PL mount joined together and spaced 8mm apart (52mm-44mm=8mm). The other thing with Canon is that you can get the Birger Mount and use the EF lenses on your Red with full electronic control of focus and iris. Then have the PL adapter made, and pop it in if your want to use PL-mount lenses on your Red. Then your dSLR would be your viewfinder for either the regular EF lenses or PL-mount with the adapter.

I don't know as much about the Sony alphas except that they were formerly Minoltas. So the mount would have a FFD of 44.5mm. So it should be just as easy to make a simple mechanical adapter as the Canons. But I can't find the internal diameter of the Sony mount anywhere, and if it's too small, it could cause problems with PL-mount lenses with deep rear elements fitting. But I doubt that it would. And as of now,at least that I've heard of, there is no plan to make the Sony lenses useable on the Red. But if you just want to use PL-mount lenses across the board, it will probably work fine.

You'll have to go to a lens tech to check the viability of these options, for sure. I did talk to a lens tech about the Canon EF to PL option and he said that he thought it would work great. I'm going to be having one made as soon as my Birger mount comes, so I'll post the results. Good Luck!
 
With a dSLR you can make digital storyboards from location scouts using the actual lenses, or equivalent lenses that you'll be using on the shoot. They'll also help you plan lighting, etc... based on unlit scouting exposures. And it's still cheaper than a good PL-mount director's finder. I think it's a great tool.
 
DSLR is the best viewfinder/colormeter/lightmeter/blockingtool/coffemaker/ there is. Super usefull.

Even though it's not technically a DSLR, I bought a Pl mount adapter for my Leica M8. It's chip is very close to s35 (27 x 18 mm)

(sanjin is going to have a fit Leica+CanonL)

2289493707_1fda98f5c5_o.jpg

2290286368_aff15d492e_o.jpg
 
The Nikon D300 with a 16-85 VR or 18-200 VR. The Nikon sensor is Just slightly larger than the Mysterum and the resolution is almost the same. You can easily mask off the Focusing screen with a sharpie an depending on the cine lenses you own either of the two above lenses should cover you for framing. Not to mention you can shoot frames and show them to your DP/Director or whoever. It's also currently the best APC camera in terms of noise, DR and IQ. Converting and DSLR to PL will be almost impossible because of the throat restrictions.
 
Hi Evin,

Why exactly would it be impossible to convert a DSLR to a cine mount?

By the way, I also plan to convert a DSLR. It would be to a BNCR mount not a PL mount. Even better since BNCR has a flange focal distance of 61.468mm compared to PL's 52.00mm. The BNCR mount will sit further away from the camera body than a PL mount.
 
The reason is PL mounts require a very deep throat. Unlike SLR lenses which almost always keep their rear elements near the bayonet, PL lenses often penetrate many MM inside the camera body. Beyond just replacing the mount you would have to hog out the body and shave down the mirror to accommodate this.
 
Well, like I said, I am planning to put a BNCR mount on it which will sit even farther up from the DSLR body.

From the BNCR lenses I've used so far (Canon K35s and 2-3 zooms) the rear elements did not penetrate way too much inside, from the mount itself. Maybe there's a chance.

PS. Obviously, the best idea is for Jim to enter the DSLR world as well and built a camera with the Mysterium sensor itself in it. Then we will have the best still camera to compliment RED. What do you say Jim?
 
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