Help me understand the workflow

[Ben A.]

Hi Guys,

Perfect Optics was nice enough to let me play with the Red.

What is the preferred workflow for FCP users? Is it the following?

Shoot on Red. Transfer the Folders with the Raw files and proxies to the Mac. Load the proxies into FCP. Edit. Export XML with Crimson/Red Trip to Red Cine to color correct.

What other workflows would a person use?

If one does not shoot Raw, does Red still create the 3 different sized proxy files?

Are the proxy files full quicktime stand alone files or are they alias to the QT files stored in the .R3D file? ( the one folder I took home from John had 32kb files for the _H, _M, _P files)

What codec is the Proxy files?

What does the _P stand for?

Thanks Much
Ben

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Hi Guys,
1.
Shoot on Red. Transfer the Folders with the Raw files and proxies to the Mac. Load the proxies into FCP. Edit. Export XML with Crimson/Red Trip to Red Cine to color correct.
2.
If one does not shoot Raw, does Red still create the 3 different sized proxy files?
3.
Are the proxy files full quicktime stand alone files or are they alias to the QT files stored in the .R3D file? ( the one folder I took home from John had 32kb files for the _H, _M, _P files)
4.
What codec is the Proxy files?
5.
What does the _P stand for?

Thanks Much
Ben

1.this is possible ( imo this will be the workflow for 80 % of fcp users)
2.you will always shoot in raw
3.they are quick and dirty 8 bit reference files including audio...they are linked with the r3d`s
4. redcode----but you should set your timeline to prores, because you cant render out redcode
5.
h----high
m---medium
p----proxy

redcine doesnt output a signal via hdsdi, so color correction is difficult.
(someone can correct me if this is wrong)

 

[Scott Simmons]

1.this is possible ( imo this will be the workflow for 80 % of fcp users)

I asked a question in the Apple part about who is really doing real editing with the QT reference files. I've found that anything over a few edits in the timeline and playback fails miserably. This isn't acceptable with clients around. I'd be curious to know specific details of anyone who is offlining in FCP using the QT ref files.

Which quality level are you using?
How big of an edit have you done, both time and number of edit events?
What are the detailed spec of your system including drive speeds?
What are you specific timeline settings?

EDIT: I say real editing meaning a real project and not just test stuff. Music video with lots of clips and hundreds of edit events, a 90 minute feature ... stuff like that.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

i dont have my cam so i cant offer a real edit,
i am not cool enough...yet

look through the footage section, ask offhollywood, ask rainer...

gibby,shawn...

 

[jimhare]

I'll be interested to see how this pans out.

My feeling is, even if I need to transcode all the raw footage up front, this can't be worse than ingesting hours and hours of Digi Beta footage, constantly shuttling tapes and swapping them every 40 minutes!

If I can set and forget, I don't care if it takes all weekend to prepare a few hours of ProRes footage. Maybe set up a farm of 3 machines to speed it up.

From there I can either take that all the way to master, or create an EDL for the original r3D files.

I would love to just work with the proxies, but if it doesn't work, I won't be too fussed.

 

[Joel Kaye]

If I can set and forget, I don't care if it takes all weekend to prepare a few hours of ProRes footage. Maybe set up a farm of 3 machines to speed it up.

I'm sorta thinking this way. But at 20 to 1 render times from full quality... yeah a render farm. I think a Cineform solution will look similar. I'm inclined to want to just spend the no brainer time up front rendering and then online in a codec I jump to any application with. My brother's been an editor for 15 years with a lot of onlining experience and his advice to me was if there's any way to edit online do it because the offline to online process often has problems.

Now maybe more modern software is solving that...

 

[jimhare]

I'm inclined to want to just spend the no brainer time up front rendering and then online in a codec I jump to any application with.

Exactly! I know people are stretching their budget as it is to buy the camera, but buying a couple of extra machines to make it work will probably only add 10-15% of the overall price.

It's like buying the camera without a lens (which I see some people have also done!)

Jim

 

[garguilo]

The disaster of a workflow

The disaster of a workflow

I am currently doing a project involving the RED. its a disaster.

My director called RED before starting the project and asked exactly how he should set up the camera. 2 main things they said were shot at 23.whatever FPS and 16x9 aspect ratio is fine (we want to output 1080p in the end). Keep in mind that is info came directly from RED.

My director brings me the footage. I installed the Final Cut Codec (which is really just the REDCODE codec, it doesnt have anything to do with Final Cut), installed REDCINE, and REDALERT. After that, whenever you open one of the REF QTs it will show the top half of the image but the bottom half will be all colored garbage. so i called (you tend to get someone quite quickly) and RED said "We havent coded our software for 16x9 yet ONLY 2x1". Holy SHIT.

So this means i can not use the proxy files (ref qts the camera makes to edit in final cut pro), and you sure as hell cant edit in REDCINE, and i cant use the cool color correction control that we used the RED stuff for in the first place. what i have to do is this:

1. Decide what format i want my final edit to be in (i chose 1080p mov), there is no turning back.
2. Render out all of my dailies using REDCINE (which is kind of a nightmare cause it takes literally days and days and the program will randomly stop, not quit, just stop, so kiss those overnight renders goodbye)
3. then use the 1080p renders (movs) in final cut, which can barely handle it and there is no easy setup for it.
4. then color correct in final cut (which, like i said before, negates shooting so flat and plan on using the cool metadata RED stuff, like changing ISO on the fly)
5. then export that final cut edit as the final result.

the only good thing about this method is that when you finally have the 1080p movs done. you are good to go. no re-conforming or anything. and you can use the Final Cut Color Correct which i am usually happy with.

i would be much much faster if i had tapes (i hate tapes) and just loaded everything in in real time. much faster!

my fault was i assumed that this process was figured out by now and i wasnt going to be the first to do it. but i guess not.

FINAL JUDGEMENT:
1. Basically, dont shot in 16x9, shoot in 2x1 until they code that properly. Cause then you can use the proxy reference files and the RED Color Correct situation.
2. RED needs to make a batcher program (REDBATCH maybe) where you can set up 100+ files to render a certain way or many different ways, so i dont have to select each one in REDCINE and mess with its settings and then trust this program that isnt meant to do this mass render.

My MACs:
1. MacPro 8 core ton of ram (basically fastest mac there is) OS 10.5.2
2. Mac Mini Dual Core 2 gigs ram (best mac mini there is) as my attempted render work horse. OS 10.4.11 !! This doesnt really work !! it wont show you what any clips look like in REDCINE, they are all grey, but they will render properly, if REDCINE doesnt crap out every couple of clips. i guess the graphics card cant handle showing anything.

 

[Matt Gottshalk]

Dam that sucks... i think Iblooms RedTrip will help you out.